How to remove pressed on wheel? Specific tool?

[RichardHarris123]

I give up!!! Back to the lump hammer and blunt wood chisel.  

[Waggy]

1 hour ago, rossjackson01 said:

Kalle on Chronoglide showed a way for removing such wheels. He said he was shown it by his original tutor who never used any tool.  Using two pieces of peg wood, ease the tips under the wheel centre and rotate the wheel with small movements, applying gentle pressure toward the centre. He said it always works.

I tried this on three pressure fit wheels that were tight. I cannot afford the Presto tool. Each took over 4 minutes, but it did work, and no distortion to the wheels. 

What he said is that he uses the Presto tool for time saving. He presto, it's off. 

 

Can you remember which video, I'll look it up.

[JohnR725]

56 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

I give up!!! Back to the lump hammer and blunt wood chisel. 

Have you ever thought of explosives? Occasionally at work I ask if I can get some C-4 or perhaps primer cord and as of yet none of that has materialized. Although I wasn't actually thinking of using it for disassembly purposes well kind of I was more thinking of making a problem go away permanently. But that might be considered inappropriate and probably some custard be unhappy. Although conceivably I might be very happy of some of the watches were to disintegrate permanently but we do not take watchmakers happiness into consideration in things

1 hour ago, rossjackson01 said:

ohn. You highlighted as quote "He said he was shown it by his original tutor who never used any tool." Sorry if I gave the wrong information. If I can expand. What he said was that the tutor preferred not to use the Presto tool, but to do it the peg wood way. The tutor taught his pupils whilst never using the presto tool. I am sure he used many other tools. Hence Kalles expertise.

The end up with interesting situations. Perhaps the original person found the Presto tool Not working. As you'll notice there are actually two separate tools so conceivably they had the wrong one. But as I also conveyed their other tools and finding the other tools are challenging if you don't know they exist.

Then a creative souls might work out other ways to do the task. This then of course brings up the problem of?

We end up with a interesting problem of if somebody has a bad experience with a Tool does that make the tool bad for ever for everyone in the universe?

So yes we do get interesting problems and watch repair we seem to have lots and lots and lots of different ways lots of different opinions lots of just everything. With the unfortunate reality of anything in life is there is no 100% this is the way to do it or else. Although that can conflict with some of the views on this group Who do seem to believe in Absolutes.

[RichardHarris123]

7 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

Have you ever thought of explosives? Occasionally at work I ask if I can get some C-4 or perhaps primer cord and as of yet none of that has materialized. Although I wasn't actually thinking of using it for disassembly purposes well kind of I was more thinking of making a problem go away permanently. But that might be considered inappropriate and probably some custard be unhappy. Although conceivably I might be very happy of some of the watches were to disintegrate permanently but we do not take watchmakers happiness into consideration in things

Hehe. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, JohnR725 said:

Have you ever thought of explosives? Occasionally at work I ask if I can get some C-4

I understand nitroglycerine is quite simple to make, but very unpredictable. Perhaps substitute a bottle of watch oil at work then leave for an urgent coffee break 2 blocks away.

[rossjackson01]

5 hours ago, Waggy said:

Can you remember which video, I'll look it up.

Scott. Been looking on Chronoglide. He does two 'live' a week. I think it was two weeks ago. But I'm not sure of the movement he was working on. Maybe it is not posted yet. when I come across it I will let you know.

Quite a few of the members watch 'live' as I do. Maybe one of them could remember?

Ross

[HectorLooi]

https://youtu.be/pDv8KDzfWlo?si=f3HCzwfYfvXyNfzT

Alex shows how to to make your own pair of lifters for the freewheel.

[ColdWind]

22 hours ago, Waggy said:

Let me known what you think.

The aliexpress's levers look long enough to work, but I think the tip of the lever is too thick to get under the wheel, with some simple filing and polishing it would work. My point of using a pair of levers is that the tip need to be extra long and equally thin so it would reach the center part of the wheel without bending it up, that's why my first photo shows the side view of the levers. The aliexpress one would bend the wheel up before it could ever reach the prying point. I remember had to keep thinning the tip down multiple times until I can get mine to work.

[mikepilk]

7 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

https://youtu.be/pDv8KDzfWlo?si=f3HCzwfYfvXyNfzT

Alex shows how to to make your own pair of lifters for the freewheel.

I use the Bergeon 6016 two pronged tool, but you have to be careful not to bend the pivot or scratch the movement. But I like Alex's idea of making lifters out of brass tube. Easy and cheap to make. I'll try that next time.

[Waggy]

13 minutes ago, mikepilk said:

use the Bergeon 6016 two pronged tool

That's what I broke the pivot with, my fault as I tried to do it in the movement (couldn't release the winding stem) so was doing it at an angle.

[Neverenoughwatches]

42 minutes ago, Waggy said:

That's what I broke the pivot with, my fault as I tried to do it in the movement (couldn't release the winding stem) so was doing it at an angle.

Alex's brass rod with a cutout to make a pair of stumpy lifters looks like a good idea. Something to make this afty, maybe a small radius opposite the lifting lip would add to it. 

52 minutes ago, Waggy said:

That's what I broke the pivot with, my fault as I tried to do it in the movement (couldn't release the winding stem) so was doing it at an angle.

I dont understand how the 6016 works, how does it lift evenly if its tapered ?

[rehajm]

19 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

dont understand how the 6016 works, how does it lift evenly if its tapered ?

It looked like a wedge but appeaes to be two pins that flank the pivot. I suppose because the pins are so long you get even leverage on the wheel even though force is concentrated on the handle side…

[nickelsilver]

WIth the Bergeon 6016, you slide it under the wheel, then twist the handle, and the two blades tilt, effectively rising in height, bringing the wheel with it. I have one, and never seem to find a wheel the blades actually fit under. I use the Presto tool. Those work great, only gripe is it would be nice to have a stop, as on a tight wheel, when it lets go, sometimes it comes up quite violently occasionally bending the wheel. Always been able to straighten them though.

[Neverenoughwatches]

49 minutes ago, nickelsilver said:

WIth the Bergeon 6016, you slide it under the wheel, then twist the handle, and the two blades tilt, effectively rising in height, bringing the wheel with it. I have one, and never seem to find a wheel the blades actually fit under. I use the Presto tool. Those work great, only gripe is it would be nice to have a stop, as on a tight wheel, when it lets go, sometimes it comes up quite violently occasionally bending the wheel. Always been able to straighten them though.

1.2mm seems to thick to fit under a sweep wheel.

[mikepilk]

7 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

1.2mm seems to thick to fit under a sweep wheel.

That's near the handle. The tips are about 0.1mm

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 minute ago, mikepilk said:

That's near the handle. The tips are about 0.1mm

Thank for clearing that up mike.

1 hour ago, rehajm said:

It looked like a wedge but appeaes to be two pins that flank the pivot. I suppose because the pins are so long you get even leverage on the wheel even though force is concentrated on the handle side…

I cant say I'm keen on the idea, leverage looks to be wrong for lifting the wheel straight up. I know proof of the pudding but i dont want to find I've wasted 50 quid.

34 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Thank for clearing that up mike.

I cant say I'm keen on the idea, leverage looks to be wrong for lifting the wheel straight up. I know proof of the pudding but i dont want to find I've wasted 50 quid.

I wonder how many top third wheel bearings get damaged by using a gear puller? 

[mikepilk]

2 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Thank for clearing that up mike.

I cant say I'm keen on the idea, leverage looks to be wrong for lifting the wheel straight up. I know proof of the pudding but i dont want to find I've wasted 50 quid.

I wonder how many top third wheel bearings get damaged by using a gear puller? 

As the Begeon 6016 is a tapered, it does have to push up at a slight angle as you slide it in. But I do it gently, and rotate it round, so I'm levering in all directions.

I also wonder about the possibility of damage from a Presto type puller. They are quite large and ungainly for such a delicate wheel.

I think Alex's solution of two bits of brass tube is a winner. It's cheap, easy to make, will not mark the movement, and easy to get a vertical lift on the wheel.  Although I have the 6016, the next time I need to remove a wheel, I'm going to make some brass tools.

[rehajm]

1 minute ago, mikepilk said:

I also wonder about the possibility of damage from a Presto type puller. They are quite large and ungainly for such a delicate wheel.

...the business end what gets close to the movement is really only the teeth and the 'delrin' material that posts for leverage, and that wheel is usually the tallest piece on the movement. I like levers for hands but with the wheels the presto feels more like pulling a cannon pinion. I have enough confidence in it that once I ensure the teeth are properly located a quick controlled squeeze does the job. 

[LittleWatchShop]

My Dad had one. Somebody on this forum called a pivot breaker several years ago.

Price has gone up.

[mikepilk]

10 minutes ago, rehajm said:

 the presto feels more like pulling a cannon pinion.

..... for which I use tweezers 

[praezis]

39 minutes ago, mikepilk said:

I think Alex's solution of two bits of brass tube is a winner. It's cheap, easy to make, will not mark the movement, and easy to get a vertical lift on the wheel.

Really not perfect for 5-spoke wheels. You can see clearly the pivot bending. He tries to conceal that by changing positions of the tool.

Frank

[rehajm]

36 minutes ago, mikepilk said:

..... for which I use tweezers 

I do too- those beefy hairspring cutter kind....a quick straight vertical pull instead of a more fiddly prying is my point...

[HectorLooi]

27 minutes ago, praezis said:

Really not perfect for 5-spoke wheels. You can see clearly the pivot bending. He tries to conceal that by changing positions of the tool.

Frank

Yes, I noticed that too. I'm thinking of making a saw cut down the middle of the brass rod, so that it straddles the spoke of the wheel and keep the leverage closer to the midline of the wheel.

[Neverenoughwatches]

25 minutes ago, HectorLooi said:

Yes, I noticed that too. I'm thinking of making a saw cut down the middle of the brass rod, so that it straddles the spoke of the wheel and keep the leverage closer to the midline of the wheel.

His brass rods look too big to be able to get them directly opposite  each other. A smaller pair should work better with the 5 spoke spacings, brass might bend though so maybe better in titanium.

[mikepilk]

10 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

His brass rods look too big to be able to get them directly opposite  each other. A smaller pair should work better with the 5 spoke spacings, brass might bend though so maybe better in titanium.

But where would I get titanium rod ?  Can you file it ?