Roller removal tool

[mikepilk]

When removing rollers, I've used a cheap version of the Bergeon 2810 Roller Remover (tool on the left in the pic). The edges where about as sharp as a cucumber, so I filed them thinner.

It's worked fine so far. But, I just tried to remove a roller, and the edges can't have been fine enough to get between the roller and staff shoulder - they must have pushed on the balance arms as the rivet broke 

I assume with the genuine Bergeon tool, the edges are super fine so as to avoid this ?

I also have another roller removal tool, but the side with the blade fine enough for wristwatches is broken. 

So should I buy the Bergeon 2810, or new blade for the other tool ? - both are exactly the same price!

[JohnFrum]

FWIW, this Chinese AliExpress Tool has 4 slots

[watchweasol]

Hi  A member posted about this tool a week or two back and said it did a fair job in removing the roller and the staff so it depends on your own personal choice, and is the tool worth the expenditure and would you get the use out of it and not be another paperweight.

[mikepilk]

37 minutes ago, watchweasol said:

Hi  A member posted about this tool a week or two back and said it did a fair job in removing the roller and the staff so it depends on your own personal choice, and is the tool worth the expenditure and would you get the use out of it and not be another paperweight.

It's hard to tell the scale. Are the slots small enough for small rollers ?

[JohnFrum]

46 minutes ago, mikepilk said:

It's hard to tell the scale. Are the slots small enough for small rollers ?

I am using it with the rollers for the Seiko 1104a (5 3/4 x 6 3/4 ligne Ladies movement).

No issues replacing rollers, balance staffs etc. 

I don’t yet have a staking set or other roller removers so this tool has been quite useful to me. 

Edited December 24, 2022 by JohnFrum

[mikepilk]

I have a staking set. There are a couple of stumps used for roller removal, but unless they are the perfect size they don't work. 

[Kalanag]

This thread is quite old but my question seems to match:

What kind of roller removal tool would you guys recommend for small wrist watch balances?

Is the way of grabbing the double roller underneath the safety roller as shown in the Bergeon catalogue right?

 

Edited March 9 by Kalanag

[Neverenoughwatches]

23 minutes ago, Kalanag said:

This thread is quite old but my question seems to match:

What kind of roller removal tool would you guys recommend for small wrist watch balances?

Is the way of grabbing the double roller underneath the upper roller as shown in the Bergeon catalogue right?

 

I haven't seen that diagram before but personally I would say that is not how I would want to hold a double roller. I appears to put the impulse pin at risk. The tool that I use most, and I think I have four different tools that employ the same method but in different ways, is the Bradux you have pictured at the bottom.  They all hook under the roller table not the safety roller, so between the hub and the roller table.

So the Bradux tool, the sides of the V slot are tapered. Often is the case, as the balance is slid up the V, the roller will part from the hub, and there is no need to squeeze the ends of the tool together. Keep focused if you do as there is a real chance of chopping the staff in half,I keep a finger between the two ends when squeezing. 

[JohnR725]

On 12/24/2022 at 7:36 AM, mikepilk said:

they must have pushed on the balance arms as the rivet broke 

I'm pretty sure mine is a genuine and yes I did that once which is why resist using it ever again. Fortunately it's easy enough to get the broken staff out of the roller.

On 12/24/2022 at 7:43 AM, JohnFrum said:

Chinese AliExpress Tool has 4 slots

 

On 12/24/2022 at 10:09 AM, mikepilk said:

It's hard to tell the scale. Are the slots small enough for small rollers ?

Interesting we both have concerns I'm wondering if it work for pocket watches And your concerns whether would work for the smaller ones?

Then I really should read answers from the bottom up as I thought this was a new discussion?

1 hour ago, Kalanag said:

s the way of grabbing the double roller underneath the safety roller as shown in the Bergeon catalogue right?

Then the picture looks wrong if it's a double roller that is one solid piece you should be under the biggest piece because that picture doesn't look quite right at all

even things like American pocket watches were double rollers can be two separate rollers I usually start at the bottom of the biggest one and then when it comes up I can get that to catch the smaller one.

Then the problem with removing rollers depending upon what you work on you can't have enough tools because you never know which one is going to work the best.

[praezis]

I liked and used the Bradux (beware of the cheap Indian copy!!), but now most often I use a tool like this:

Collet shoulder in headstock, roller in tailstock collet. Slightly spin and pull.

Frank

Edited March 9 by praezis

[Kalanag]

I have this cheap Chinese version of the Bergeon 2810. It is scrap, as the pictures show!

Edited March 9 by Kalanag

[oldhippy]

I had the Bergeon 2810 and never had any problem. Mind you back in the 70's and 80's we didn't have Chinese crap around. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

28 minutes ago, Kalanag said:

I have this cheap Chinese version of the Bergeon 2810. It is scrap, as the pictures show!

Absolutely, both the Chinese and Indian copies as Frank suggests, are very poor quality without their intended use considered. 

[rehajm]

I’ve had watch parts arrive with the cheap version of the 2810 thrown in. Indeed it is of the quality as described. Fortunately the bloke who retired his K&D staking set also bequeathed a lovely Bergeon version of the tool to me in the bottom of the case..

I’m curious if anyone uses the Bergeon 4852 for removal? 

Esslinger describes as a remover?

Edited March 9 by rehajm

[mbwatch]

I don't usually work on wrist watches needing balance work, but I have both a genuine Bergeon 2810 and the Indian version and I hate them both. Even the Bergeon does not feel strong enough for American pocket watch rollers and the edges of mine are all banged up. The old style beaver teeth tools or even the ancient K&D stumps that never seem to be quite the right size.

I remember reading somewhere, maybe in de Carle, that American balance staffs were typically of harder steel than Swiss. Maybe that's why my Bergeon tool's blades did not hold up any better than the cheap copy.

[Kalanag]

2 hours ago, rehajm said:

I’m curious if anyone uses the Bergeon 4852 for removal? …

I‘ve seen Kalle (Youtube) using this kind of tool for roller removal. It makes sense to me.

Edited March 9 by Kalanag

[praezis]

15 minutes ago, Kalanag said:

I‘ve seen Kalle (Youtube) using this kind of tool for roller removal. It makes sense to me.

Yes, Kalle 

With just a little bit of bad luck you will turn/remove the staff, not the roller …

Frank

[Kalanag]

1 hour ago, praezis said:

…With just a little bit of bad luck you will turn/remove the staff, not the roller …

This thread tells me that there is no generally safe method for removing the roller.

Edited March 9 by Kalanag

[mikepilk]

I did end up buying the Bergeon 2810 and have had no problems with it. You do have to be careful though. You need to make sure it's seated between the roller and staff shoulder and not pushing on the balance arms. Rollers can be very soft, and too much pressure on the tool can easily bend them.

[praezis]

1 hour ago, Kalanag said:

This thread tells me that there is no generally safe method for removing the roller.

I don‘t see that.
Dangerous are all methods that rely on a tight enough rivet of the staff as with 4852.

But watches are too different, from lady‘s to big pocket or B-Uhr watches, there cannot be one for all.

The Bradux is fine with most wrist watches.

There is a reason why I use the lathe. It is a safe method and also works with big PWs.

Frank

[Kalanag]

4 hours ago, praezis said:

…There is a reason why I use the lathe. It is a safe method and also works with big PWs…

There it is, the generally safe method! 

[Neverenoughwatches]

6 hours ago, Kalanag said:

This thread tells me that there is no generally safe method for removing the roller.

The Bradux,  it pushes the roller from the hub, the tool does not get near the balance arms, it pushes against the staff not pulls on it  Only caution is to ease the pressure when squeezing and keep index finger inbetween the Bradux arms to limit their travel. 

[Kalanag]

I finally ordered a genuine Bergeon 2810.

Thanks to all of you for your helpful contributions!

Edited March 10 by Kalanag

[rehajm]

21 hours ago, praezis said:

With just a little bit of bad luck you will turn/remove the staff, not the roller

…or a time saver if staff replacement is where you’re headed next. You know- one less thing

[Kalanag]

I just tested this Chinese tool (mentioned above by @JohnFrum) and can recommend it for people having a limited tool budget. You can remove/install roller tables and install hair springs.

The quality is decent for around 40 bucks.

Edited March 20 by Kalanag