Congreve Rolling Ball Clock

[Clockwatching247]

Hello, I’m trying to get my rolling ball Clock to work, the mainspring and fusee don’t seem to be moving when wound. Any ideas? Thank you

[watchweasol]

Hi can you post a picture of the clock and the winding mech,  you say when you wind the clock nothing moves, can you be a little more specific so we can get a clearer idea as to what is going on.     Cheers

[JohnR725]

4 hours ago, Clockwatching247 said:

I’m trying to get my rolling ball Clock to work, the mainspring and fusee don’t seem to be moving when wound. Any ideas?

I'm sure everyone knows what a rolling ball clock is but just in case somebody new it's nice to give a picture of it because they're rather interesting devices.

 

[Clockwatching247]

Hi here’s few pics, I know that the wire on the fusee barrel  should be straight and aligned -it’s almost impossible to keep it on the barrel-I was hoping it would sit better when it ran when I got the clock the wire was loose and all over the barrels -not wrapped. When I wind the mainspring barrel the wire is tight between the two  ready for the spring to slowly pull the wire over-but it doesn’t move. The fusee barrel appears to be stuck-it will wind the wire up but won’t rotate the other direction to allow the main spring barrel to pull it. Apologies for the poor description 

A little bit about the clock for those that haven’t seen one before.. The pic is of the clock without its glass hood-it looks nicer than that . It’s a Congreve rolling ball clock. The ball rolls from one side of the platform to the other every 15seconds instead of a pendulum. It hits a lever which then tips the platform to allow the ball to roll in the opposite direction. They are notoriously difficult to set up and don’t keep good time it has lots of little weights and rods to adjust the levers and platform, and a little spirit level at the front as it has to be completely flat to work.   It’s a lovely item-I just wish I could get it to work!! 

Sorry-there’s more.. The clock doesn’t have a click spring to keep it in place and the main spring is about 2”” wide-the ratchet whelk also doesn’t have anything to keep it in place. I’ma little nervous about completely winding it as all of that power will be on the-not great click and it’s screw

[JohnR725]

2 hours ago, Clockwatching247 said:

I know that the wire on the fusee barrel  should be straight and aligned -it’s almost impossible to keep it

I'm wondering if somebody replace the wire With something it's not suitable?

 

2 hours ago, Clockwatching247 said:

They are notoriously difficult to set up and don’t keep good time

Good that you already know that so we don't have to mention that aspect. I've even heard things like the ball has to be super clean and so does the bed or that can be an issue in other words dust would not be a good thing.

 

[watchweasol]

Hi it sounds as though you already understand the pit fall with these clocks. The fusee spring is very powerful and treat it with respect. If there is no spring on the click it’s not advisable to put it under power, so firstly get a new click spring filtted ensuring the thing is safe under power as a sudden power surge could damage the clock. So the clock was in a non running state when you got it with the cable all ravelled up, what I think you have is bog standard Bowden cable not the proper cable which from memory is a little more flexible. Bowden cable is stiffer which I think is the reason it will not wind on to the fusee correctly.  Are we correct in thinking you intend to fix it your self ?.    Cheers

[Clockwatching247]

Hello, thanks for your replies. Yes I was hoping to fix it myself, but I am a beginner so it may be beyond me. I don’t think they had click springs-all of the pictures I’ve seen don’t have them. I was at the BHI last week and their, far superior,  rolling ball clock didn’t have a click spring either-that said I don’t trust the flimsy click by itself. What is the correct wire called please? How is it attached inside the barrels? Many thanks 

[JohnR725]

6 hours ago, Clockwatching247 said:

I was at the BHI last week

Yes that's definitely an interesting place to visit.

Here's a video of a clock which is interesting because you can get the plans for. There may be useful information in the book

https://youtu.be/6h6Ic5RCIq0

 

6 hours ago, Clockwatching247 said:

Yes I was hoping to fix it myself, but I am a beginner so it may be beyond me.

Yes I think you might find the book helpful he does show how to make one he shows all the steps he also shows all the parts it might be helpful. Since you can go to the BHI they should have one in the library Don't know if they allow people a borrow books of the library or not? But if I remember right they did have a room where you could read the books there.

10 hours ago, Clockwatching247 said:

When I wind the mainspring barrel the wire is tight between the two  ready for the spring to slowly pull the wire over-but it doesn’t move. The fusee barrel appears to be stuck-it will wind the wire up but won’t rotate the other direction to allow the main spring barrel to pull it. Apologies for the poor description 

I think what you're describing is exactly what is supposed to happen. Unwound the Cable should be entirely on the mainspring barrel with A very tiny amount of poll to keep the whole thing from falling off for its unwound just enough to keep it in place. Then you wind the fusee which has the internal clicks which you may not Be able to see at one end. So you should Be able to wind it all over to the fusee but I wouldn't do that with the amount of power you have if it's not running should Just wind a little bit. Then the whole thing will just sit there and do absolutely nothing at all unless the clock itself is running.

So it's actually sounds like it's all working except the course your picture sews the cable around the fusee barrel where it's not supposed to be.

 

 

 

 

 

[Michael1962]

What I wouldn't give to be able to get a clock like that. Or a gravity saw tooth clock.

I have seen pictures on here and know of them, but the chance of ever seeing one in the flesh in my lifetime in Australia may be pushing it.

Ya lucky bugger.

[ChrisInOz]

I see that this is an old thread,  but I know these projects can take years,  so I will take the liberty of adding a few thoughts in case I can help.

1. The fusee may be fitted with some kind of stop work mechanism that will prevent it from turning when the mainspring is almost run down.  this would explain the "jammed" condition.
2. As already mentioned,  in some fusee clocks there are winding squares on both the barrel and the fusee.  In that case,  winding the barrel is only for the purpose of putting a little pre-load on the mainspring,  and would not normally be used to wind the clock. The pre-load ensures that there is always a small amount of tension on the cable,  which would assist with keeping it aligned.
3. Before winding,  I would expect all of the cable to be on the barrel,   then, winding the clock should pull the cable onto the fusee,  starting at the wide end,  so that when the clock is fully wound, (and thus the barrel torque is at its maximum) the cable will be applying torque to the narrowest part of the fusee.
4. Cables are made specifically for clock fusees.   Some people use bronze and some use synthetics.   I can't comment on which is better,  as I have yet to make the fusee for my project,  but a quick search turned up this supplier in the UK. https://www.johnwardle.co.uk/5-ft-152mtrs-140mm-bronze-cable-for-fusee-clocks-372-p.asp

I hope this is useful.

[chrisclockrepairs]

Im in NSW and have one which I now use for a doorstop as someone here suggested. After fully overhauling and much time wasted in adjusting, The table will just not lift with the ball on it whether fully wound or otherwise. So I will use the case for another clock and keep using it as a doorstop. It’s a Chinese one by the way. 
I would recommend to never buy one of these terrible things as it’s guaranteed money well wasted.

 

Chris in Aus

 

[JohnR725]

2 hours ago, chrisclockrepairs said:

It’s a Chinese one by the way. 

I know they can run I've seen them run. John Wilding interesting person that I did get the meat on one occasion wrote a whole bunch of books on how to make a variety of clocks. One of the clocks that he has a book on is that clock I doubt he would've written an entire book on a clock that is basically a doorstop. Then the problem with the Chinese is that they skip steps in manufacturing they do not exactly clone things. So conceivably that is the issue. so while at the Chinese can make nice stuff it appears to be one of these clocks is not one of them.

[oldhippy]

Just looked at the photos and the first thing you need to do is get rid of that terrible wire which is strangled and kinked. You will need to take the movement apart in order to do this. It originally had a chain as I can see the marks of a chain on the barrel. That wire will also leave terrible marks on the barrel and on the fusee. Replace with synthetic gut or better still coated wire with nylon.   

[ChrisInOz]

On 11/30/2024 at 7:59 PM, oldhippy said:

Just looked at the photos and the first thing you need to do is get rid of that terrible wire which is strangled and kinked. You will need to take the movement apart in order to do this. It originally had a chain as I can see the marks of a chain on the barrel. That wire will also leave terrible marks on the barrel and on the fusee. Replace with synthetic gut or better still coated wire with nylon.   

Unfortunately,  the original poster has not logged on since August,  so possibly he has not seen any of these recent posts.   A pity,  because I would have loved to see this one restored to working condition.

Very interesting that you spotted fusee chain marks on the barrel.  I have been assuming that this clock was a modern replica,  but if it once had a chain that makes me wonder if it is older.  (Still skeptical about the 1709 date on the base however .)

On 2/14/2023 at 7:10 PM, Michael1962 said:

What I wouldn't give to be able to get a clock like that. Or a gravity saw tooth clock.

I have seen pictures on here and know of them, but the chance of ever seeing one in the flesh in my lifetime in Australia may be pushing it.

I saw a modern replica running in a shop window about 20 years ago. It was in a watch shop in the Adelaide Arcade,  so they do exist in Australia.  I hear they are very poor at keeping time,  and need a lot of cleaning to keep them running.

John Wilding published a book of plans and construction details for one in 1983.  The book is listed on Amazon,  but I'm not sure if it's actually available.  

see this link:  https://www.amazon.com/Make-Congreve-Clock-John-Wilding/dp/090351205X

 

[oldhippy]

It certainly is not as old as 1709. 

[ChrisInOz]

2 hours ago, oldhippy said:

It certainly is not as old as 1709. 

For sure!  William Congreve only patented the design in 1808. 

[oldhippy]

I would say its middle 1850's going by the style of the wheel collets and the thickness of the plates.