Carriage Clock help

[oldhippy]

I need to see a photo of the hairspring going through the regulator before I can say if the regulator is complete or broken. Can you post a nice clear photo of it please. 

[tyl]

Gained eight minutes overnight.  I am trying something different.  Moving it to -45 degrees or to the left (toward the + marking) and leaving it at the 9 o'clock point.  Will let it run for a day and see if it slows down.  Maybe I have been adjusting it the wrong direction as I see the hairspring getting tighter when I move the regulator to the right (toward the minus sign).

I had moved it to the right as far as it would go and the hairspring was very tight.  So I am moving it to loosen up the hairspring and will see what it does.

Appreciate the help and comments.

[oldhippy]

If only you would post a clear photo for me I would be able to sort it out for you. 

[transporter]

Ok, you are wasting your time just playing with the regulator, just stop and now start to look into doing a service proper. You say you took the movement out and inspected it and oiled pivot holes on the upper plate.

You didn't do the lower plate. So there is  a problem straight away.  The only way you will get this timepiece going properly is to inspect, strip , repair, clean and lube then run for for testing and regulating out of the case for a good two full winds.

Everything else you have done so far should be telling you that you need to do a service.

be prepared to buy yourself a yellow oiler and more importantly a let down tool for the mainspring, take lots of photos of the strip down, it will be simple as its a time only piece, and post herefor advice.

Edited May 30, 2023 by transporter

[oldhippy]

You do not use a let down spring tool on this clock, the arbor has a  thread which its key winds onto. After the movement is out of its case and the key is back on you have easy access to the click, so with one hand on the key as you go to wind it with the other hand use your fingers to release the click and gradually let the key go anti clockwise, this is the proper way to let this type of movement down. Just be careful not to let the key slip in your had, just a little at a time.    

See photo. 

[transporter]

For let down tool I was meaning a slotted handle, apologies for not explaining better, I could see someone new to the game not realising how much power a small spring can release through their fingers when they slip.

so for safety I use a small file handle with a split to fit the wings of the key and allow that to rotate in my hand to let the spring down under control or more control than holding the key

[oldhippy]

22 minutes ago, transporter said:

For let down tool I was meaning a slotted handle, apologies for not explaining better, I could see someone new to the game not realising how much power a small spring can release through their fingers when they slip.

so for safety I use a small file handle with a split to fit the wings of the key and allow that to rotate in my hand to let the spring down under control or more control than holding the key

Fair enough that works well. 

[tyl]

Thank you again for the comments.  I am not confident yet in taking the clock apart.

The hairspring appears to go through a slit in the regulator tab (see pic and question below).

If I do need to disassemble the clock, can it be done from the back without removing the face?  If not, are the hands a press fit?

Assume the response about spring letdown is if I need to disassemble?

 

So here is where I am now:

Disaster.  After moving the regulator negative 45% it has now completely stopped running.   And I think I heard a thump or felt a thump when adjusting it back to 0 degrees.  Wondering if the hairspring just got cockeyed or jumped a loop as I was readjusting. Hairspring is not (no longer?) perpendicular to the ground; in fact it slants (see pic).

And I find a greater length of hairspring between the slotted regulator tab and the permanent end of the spring - not sure but I do not remember seeing this much hairspring actually extending past the perimeter of the "balance wheel?" before.   I do not remember seeing this kink.   Is this normal?  None of my earlier pics is clear enough to see.  Did I release a coil of the hairspring by mistake?

Regulator tab question.  The hairspring appears to pass through a slit in the regulator tab.  However there is a cutout at the interior end of this slit and I wonder if the hairspring is supposed to be in that cutout instead of captured in the slit?  Could this be what I heard?  Or does the hairspring slide back and forth in the slit with length adjustments?  Should I push it over to the cutout? Does it need oil?

Pictures below.  Again your help is much appreciated.

 

 

031410519949220180202_RCT.pdf

[RichardHarris123]

Wow, that's one mangled hair spring. 

[tyl]

So you believe it would have been perfectly flat before?  Can I slide it up or down the spline to make it flat again?

And this forum does not accept videos?  What are "Other Media?"

[RichardHarris123]

Yes flat and I have no idea what happened to the termination coil. 

[transporter]

So you’ve flexed the hairspring,it’s easily sorted but I know you’re not confident in stripping the clock so I’d reframe from messing any more until you strip the mechanism now.

As for stripping yes you’ll need to remove the dial, the hands should be press fit, once the power is off the mainspring away you go taking it apart, if you want to see a rescued hairspring look on my Instagram under white_time_horology

I had a mangled one on there that I rescued.

[tyl]

Do not use Instagram; is it available on email?

 

[transporter]

Here’s a couple of pictures, there is a video of the completed hairspring fitted and working, but you get the idea

[oldhippy]

The hairspring is in a mess. You need to unpin the hairspring then feed it out of the regulator then remove the complete balance by unscrewing the cup on the opposite side to the regulator, then you can start to re-shame the hairspring. I think you should just put the clock to one side until you have gained a lot of experience.

Edited May 31, 2023 by oldhippy

[tyl]

OK, I m at the limits of my courage.  Pic of faceplate removed.  Can I remove/repair the mainspring from the front?

[oldhippy]

Mainspring? Don't you mean hairspring if so I have explained what you need to do to remove it. 

[Bod]

19 hours ago, transporter said:

Here’s a couple of pictures, there is a video of the completed hairspring fitted and working, but you get the idea

Apart from huge amounts of patience, what tools were used, and is there a tried and trusted method of doing this?

I have one to do, but not as bad as yours!

 

Bod

[oldhippy]

Very fine tweezers two pairs is what I used to use  dumont number 5

[tyl]

Pics of hairspring somewhat flatter and somewhat more round.  Do need to work on the roundness more?  There are a few places where the spacing is not very good.

 

Thx for the help.  

That should say do I need to work on the spacing  or roundness of the hairspring more.  Fingers faster than brain.

Thank you for the advice about unscrewing the cup on the back of the regulator.  Worked like a charm

[HectorLooi]

Doesn't look too bad. Now you'll need to take note of the position of the collet on the balance staff and remove the hairspring from the balance and lay it flat on a white surface. I use an old watch crystal on a piece of paper. 

Work on getting the spiral evenly spaced first, starting from the centre and working outwards. Keep the spring in a flat plane, don't develop any twists.

For the endcurve, I like to mount just the spring back on the clock plate, threading it through the regulator. I will form the stepped crank near the stud first by moving the regulator towards the hairspring stud, as far as it would travel. Then adjust the spring until the collet is centred over the balance pivot hole. Then move the regulator in small increments and repeat centering the collet.

This is best done with the plates disassembled. But to do that, you'll have to learn how to disassemble a clock. That's another story.

 

[tyl]

Worked on hairspring some more.  Looking better.  Is this good enough?

[HectorLooi]

Could be a little better. Work on the last centimeter. You might need this last bit if the clock still runs fast.

[tyl]

Got it.

How close does this hairspring need to be to work properly - does it need to look machine perfect?  Not sure I can do that.

 

[HectorLooi]

Being OCD, I would probably spend hours trying to get it as perfect as possible. But practically, as long as the coils do not touch each other at full amplitude, I think that would be good enough.