What's your favourite YouTube watch repair channel?

[Neverenoughwatches]

2 hours ago, SwissSeiko said:

 

 

56 minutes ago, mpe7383 said:

which I don't use, can't justify the cost, given the above theory there's a chance the oil doesn't get through the jewel hole?

You just make sure that it does, i rarely oil this way, i like to know the cap gets enough oil , but when i do....i push it through with a bristle. 

[gpraceman]

2 hours ago, SwissSeiko said:

So, the theory on this may have changed, but my information is from the old books, and they say to put a drop of oil on the pivot side of the jewel after it has been installed, then use a fine oiler or something similar(I sharpened an old oiler to a very fine point) and press it into the hole, and let the capillary action pull in the oil. I think its probably OK to do it with his shown method, but the method described by Grant Hood I think is better. He explains that when oiling the jewels separate, the capillary action pulls the oil to the surface of the cap jewel, instead of keeping it in the middle. Again, the old saying goes, if you ask 5 watchmakers how to oil a watch, you'll get 10 different answers.

Interesting way to oil the jewel settings.

1 hour ago, mpe7383 said:

Excellent information thanks SwissSeiko, all makes good sense, leads me onto another question about auto oilers though, which I don't use, can't justify the cost, given the above theory there's a chance the oil doesn't get through the jewel hole?

I recently got an auto oiler (Chinese clone) that is working out well for me.  Far less cost than the Bergeon one.  No real instructions, but it wasn't hard to figure out how to adjust, fill and use it.

[mpe7383]

1 hour ago, gpraceman said:

Interesting way to oil the jewel settings.

I recently got an auto oiler (Chinese clone) that is working out well for me.  Far less cost than the Bergeon one.  No real instructions, but it wasn't hard to figure out how to adjust, fill and use it.

I have come very close several times to click the buy button for one of these clones, l'm all up for cheaper versions that do the job, many of us have weishi's right, but then fear sets in. When I was at school (80s) we were made to use these cheap fountain pens to improve handwriting, these pens would decide to puke up their contents whenever they chose to, most kids bags and pencil cases had nasty ink stains, and that's where the fear is, a couple of pence worth of ink is nothing, the thought of getting to your workbench and seeing twenty quid worth of 9010 pooled on your mat, I would probably have to call in sick.

gpraceman pay no attention to me, I'm just a miserable b*****d, and I probably will click that buy button. But I'm going to hide my 9010 just in case this happens and I get blamed with demands for my stash.

Edited October 24, 2024 by mpe7383
Typo

[Knebo]

4 hours ago, SwissSeiko said:

So, the theory on this may have changed, but my information is from the old books, and they say to put a drop of oil on the pivot side of the jewel after it has been installed, then use a fine oiler or something similar(I sharpened an old oiler to a very fine point) and press it into the hole, and let the capillary action pull in the oil. I think its probably OK to do it with his shown method, but the method described by Grant Hood I think is better. He explains that when oiling the jewels separate, the capillary action pulls the oil to the surface of the cap jewel, instead of keeping it in the middle. Again, the old saying goes, if you ask 5 watchmakers how to oil a watch, you'll get 10 different answers.

I could be wrong, but at 32:34 of the video, it looks like the jewel surface is the domed towards him and I don't see the oil reservoir, but I could be mistaken. Its not super clear in the video, but something that I thought looked off.

This ia an interesting debate!

Here are my five cents (little money, but lots of words to come, hahaha) :

1. I think the book that @SwissSeiko scanned here may come from the era of non-shock protected balance jewels. And then, I'd totally agree with the statements in the book. For those settings, oiling the cap jewel, and then putting it on the hole jewel that is fixed on the balance cock and screwing in those tiny screws to fix it, is a recipe for oil just smearing around. And yes, then the hole jewel may end up dry. The prescribed method in the book works much better. And it's so much easier, too. 

->One note, though: when sharpening whichever pin or oiler to push the oil through, one has to make sure to polish it nicely. Ideally a mirror polish. Why? If filed down too rough, it can easily happen that debris/shavings from the metal will come loose when pushing it through the hole jewel. Those shavings will then end up in the oil and around the pivot, causing problems. I've experienced this at the beginning of using this method (for non-shock protected balance jewels). If you have a microscope, this is a moment to inspect carefully (looking through the cap jewels towards the oil drop and pivot). 

2. In "modern" (last 70-80 years, haha) shock-protected jewel settings, I don't see the same problem. The two jewels are usually easily put together (after the drop of oil is applied to the cap jewel). And one can/should check that the oil remains in the center (20x loupe or microscope should show the oil ring clearly). IF we know that the oil is held in the center, all will be fine, I think. (BUT, yes, if you're not careful when putting the jewels together and not checking the oil ring, it's totally possible that the oil spilled to the side of the chaton and then your oiling is a fail). But if the oil is in the center: when the balance pivot is pushed through the hole jewel and gets into the oil on the cap jewel, it'll draw the oil into the hole through capillary action. 

-> Another note here: and this one may be controversial. Epilame... I personally stopped applying epilame to the balance jewels - at least not the hole jewel. A Rolex manual from 2009 (so very recent, see screenshot below) does NOT mention the balance jewels for epilame treatment. And I read somewhere that Rolex determined that the residual from epilame could cause wear. It makes sense to me: When I see the residual of epilame (under very high magnification under the microscope) on the pallet jewel surface, it is clear that it is non-negligible -- especially, in contrast with the "channel" of clean jewel surface after running it dry for a few minutes (when the escape wheel has scraped off the epilame in this particular area). 

So, if we apply epilame to the hole jewel, the balance pivot will rub it off. Then the oil can move to the hole and pivot (if it didn't rub it off, we'd end up with a dry hole and pivot as epilame is supposed to stop oil from moving - we also don't want that as discussed in @SwissSeiko's book). That residual is now around the pivot, I suppose. Can't be ideal. 

Some may say that we need the epilame there to keep the oil from spreading down the balance pivot towards the wheel/spokes. I very much doubt that this happens IF the oiling is done right (right quantity and central on the jewels). Capillary action should hold it. At least I've not observed this in any of my watches. 

 

Pandora's box = opened 

[SwissSeiko]

On 10/24/2024 at 3:07 PM, Knebo said:

> Another note here: and this one may be controversial. Epilame... I personally stopped applying epilame to the balance jewels - at least not the hole jewel. A Rolex manual from 2009 (so very recent, see screenshot below) does NOT mention the balance jewels for epilame treatment. And I read somewhere that Rolex determined that the residual from epilame could cause wear. It makes sense to me: When I see the residual of epilame (under very high magnification under the microscope) on the pallet jewel surface, it is clear that it is non-negligible -- especially, in contrast with the "channel" of clean jewel surface after running it dry for a few minutes (when the escape wheel has scraped off the epilame in this particular area). 

 

Pandora's box = opened 

I swear I'm one of the only watchmakers that has never used epilame. I was listening to a podcast recently about a couple watchmakers that worked for Swatch and he said that when he got the escape wheels from them, they were coated in "Lubrifar" which is their version of epilame, and he would clean that all off before installing the parts. He mentioned that 6 or so months after a service, the lubrifar would have gunked up and turned black, causing issues with the escapement. 

[mbwatch]

53 minutes ago, SwissSeiko said:

I swear I'm one of the only watchmakers that has never used epilame.

I think in a recent Rolex service on Nekkid Watchmaker, admitted he does not normally use epilame (but did as required on the GMT).

[Neverenoughwatches]

On 10/24/2024 at 9:07 PM, Knebo said:

This ia an interesting debate!

Here are my five cents (little money, but lots of words to come, hahaha) :

1. I think the book that @SwissSeiko scanned here may come from the era of non-shock protected balance jewels. And then, I'd totally agree with the statements in the book. For those settings, oiling the cap jewel, and then putting it on the hole jewel that is fixed on the balance cock and screwing in those tiny screws to fix it, is a recipe for oil just smearing around. And yes, then the hole jewel may end up dry. The prescribed method in the book works much better. And it's so much easier, too. 

->One note, though: when sharpening whichever pin or oiler to push the oil through, one has to make sure to polish it nicely. Ideally a mirror polish. Why? If filed down too rough, it can easily happen that debris/shavings from the metal will come loose when pushing it through the hole jewel. Those shavings will then end up in the oil and around the pivot, causing problems. I've experienced this at the beginning of using this method (for non-shock protected balance jewels). If you have a microscope, this is a moment to inspect carefully (looking through the cap jewels towards the oil drop and pivot). 

2. In "modern" (last 70-80 years, haha) shock-protected jewel settings, I don't see the same problem. The two jewels are usually easily put together (after the drop of oil is applied to the cap jewel). And one can/should check that the oil remains in the center (20x loupe or microscope should show the oil ring clearly). IF we know that the oil is held in the center, all will be fine, I think. (BUT, yes, if you're not careful when putting the jewels together and not checking the oil ring, it's totally possible that the oil spilled to the side of the chaton and then your oiling is a fail). But if the oil is in the center: when the balance pivot is pushed through the hole jewel and gets into the oil on the cap jewel, it'll draw the oil into the hole through capillary action. 

-> Another note here: and this one may be controversial. Epilame... I personally stopped applying epilame to the balance jewels - at least not the hole jewel. A Rolex manual from 2009 (so very recent, see screenshot below) does NOT mention the balance jewels for epilame treatment. And I read somewhere that Rolex determined that the residual from epilame could cause wear. It makes sense to me: When I see the residual of epilame (under very high magnification under the microscope) on the pallet jewel surface, it is clear that it is non-negligible -- especially, in contrast with the "channel" of clean jewel surface after running it dry for a few minutes (when the escape wheel has scraped off the epilame in this particular area). 

So, if we apply epilame to the hole jewel, the balance pivot will rub it off. Then the oil can move to the hole and pivot (if it didn't rub it off, we'd end up with a dry hole and pivot as epilame is supposed to stop oil from moving - we also don't want that as discussed in @SwissSeiko's book). That residual is now around the pivot, I suppose. Can't be ideal. 

Some may say that we need the epilame there to keep the oil from spreading down the balance pivot towards the wheel/spokes. I very much doubt that this happens IF the oiling is done right (right quantity and central on the jewels). Capillary action should hold it. At least I've not observed this in any of my watches. 

 

Pandora's box = opened 

A few in the forum have mentioned the white residual powder from  epilame....having a grinding effect on jewels and pivots. I seem to remember Nicklesilver had some personal experience of this. 

Never used it myself, but i do have some stearic acid that i experiment with.

[mpe7383]

Hmmm, I'm not sure I like the sounds of this epilame stuff, I've never considered using it, I'm not that deep into the skills and techniques of the professionals, as purely an amateur I'm happy with the results of good oiling practices. But after reading the above regarding epilame and other such products, I'm getting the faintest whiff of a watchmaking industry marketing scam to use a product that will ultimately reduce service interval times.

[mpe7383]

Been looking into epilame a bit more and would just like to ask a hypothetical question to you guys that use it.

Say you have two identical high quality movements, everything is identical, the amount of lubrication, the regulation, time on the wrist and general day to day wear and tear through use. The only difference is that one movement has had epilame applied. Which movement would you expect to show signs of performance degradation first?

[tomh207]

Guy’s, I know we like to go off on tangents for a post or two but lubricant discussion has its own forum section dedicated to those arguments, this thread is meant to be discussing favourite yootoobers.

 

thanks

Tom

[VWatchie]

1 hour ago, tomh207 said:

Guy’s, I know we like to go off on tangents for a post or two but lubricant discussion has its own forum section dedicated to those arguments, this thread is meant to be discussing favourite yootoobers.

thanks

Tom

Agree! I don't mind a detour now and then, on the contrary. However, when the thread changes shape completely, it's better to start a new thread or post in an existing thread and then link to it so those interested can jump over there.

So, please follow our much-appreciated moderator @tomh207's suggestion!

Edited October 31, 2024 by VWatchie

[mpe7383]

Understood, and agree

[Knebo]

Yes, sorry for initiating that tangent 

[VWatchie]

30 minutes ago, Knebo said:

Yes, sorry for initiating that tangent 

Hey, no worries! 

[Neverenoughwatches]

7 hours ago, tomh207 said:

Guy’s, I know we like to go off on tangents for a post or two but lubricant discussion has its own forum section dedicated to those arguments, this thread is meant to be discussing favourite yootoobers.

 

thanks

Tom

Good call Tom, it also avoids....yet another lubrication talk.....yey....3 cheers for Tom...hip hip hurra.......never mind....you did great Tom x

[GuyMontag]

This one popped up in my feed last night (T&T&T Watch Repair) where he makes a winding stem on a lathe. I don't own a lathe but found it fascinating. Those of you who do have lathe experience, is it as easy as he makes it look? I'm going to guess not
 

 

[tomh207]

9 minutes ago, GuyMontag said:

This one popped up in my feed last night (T&T&T Watch Repair) where he makes a winding stem on a lathe. I don't own a lathe but found it fascinating. Those of you who do have lathe experience, is it as easy as he makes it look? I'm going to guess not
 

 

He has a few really interesting videos, I didn’t mention his channel here as he posts very infrequently. He did post one recently, making a mainspring barrel I think.

 

Tom

[Klassiker]

54 minutes ago, GuyMontag said:

is it as easy as he makes it look?

That depends, doesn't it? If you are a highly skilled watchmaker with years of experience, then it's as easy as he makes it look. Like Fried manipulating a hairspring. If you are a rank amateur like most of us here, then your results may vary.

To make a functioning winding stem though, given the right tools and enough patience, should be possible for even the most ungifted amongst us.

[mbwatch]

2 hours ago, Klassiker said:

rank amateur

My lathe is almost up and running, just need to lap a bearing. I have watched t&t&t and others and am going to attempt to make a stem as my first project. I will report on how easy or not it turns out.

[caseback]

5 hours ago, mbwatch said:

My lathe is almost up and running, just need to lap a bearing. I have watched t&t&t and others and am going to attempt to make a stem as my first project. I will report on how easy or not it turns out.

Making a set of pin gauges would also be a nice easy project to practice turning down to small (and cylindrical) diameters.

9 hours ago, GuyMontag said:

This one popped up in my feed last night (T&T&T Watch Repair) where he makes a winding stem on a lathe. I don't own a lathe but found it fascinating. Those of you who do have lathe experience, is it as easy as he makes it look? I'm going to guess not
 

 

The diameters are relatively big, so it's not that difficult. I do like the thread cutting dies he uses, but I believe they are a bit expensive..

Edited February 16 by caseback

[Neverenoughwatches]

11 hours ago, GuyMontag said:

Those of you who do have lathe experience, is it as easy as he makes it look? I'm going to guess not

Bigger part to work and with not quite the same accuracy required for turning out a staff. A good place to start learning lathework after churing out a bucket full of mixed shavings from random bits of metal.

3 hours ago, caseback said:

Making a set of pin gauges would also be a nice easy project to practice turning down to small (and cylindrical) diameters.

The diameters are relatively big, so it's not that difficult. I do like the thread cutting dies he uses, but I believe they are a bit expensive..

Rolling dies...yes expensive Cees

9 hours ago, mbwatch said:

My lathe is almost up and running, just need to lap a bearing. I have watched t&t&t and others and am going to attempt to make a stem as my first project. I will report on how easy or not it turns out.

More than competent in my estimations Michael. 

[SwissSeiko]

The hardest part in making a stem is making sure the winding pinion seat is square. I dont have a file rest, so locking the headstock and doing it free hand is a challenge. But they are not hard to make. Its a great skill to learn, for when you have a unique movement that has a broken stem, and want to get a job out the door instead of waiting a week or two.

[tomh207]

Not repair per se, brand new channel from Finland looks like it could be interesting.

 

 

Tom

[RichardHarris123]

Who wants to watch anything Finnish?  Only joking my Finnish friends. Hehe.  

One of my favourite bands are Finnish. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

37 minutes ago, tomh207 said:

Not repair per se, brand new channel from Finland looks like it could be interesting.

 

 

Tom

The charismatic introduction had me panicking ,  but the two lads managed to pull back my interest eventually lol.

They just need dragging out round town on a Hull Friday night