A design for a belt-driven Jacot Tool ...... ?

[Endeavor]

54 minutes ago, nickelsilver said:

It takes a while to get the teeth off

Tell me about it

Spent whole day and I'm only halfway. So far I've been using coarse emery-paper (#80) and a #400 grit diamond hone. Since I have a thin file, the risk with mechanical grinding is that you may heat the file (locally) over its tempering / annealing temperature, something I like to avoid.

Nice job for the weekend

 

Edited July 7, 2023 by Endeavor

[Endeavor]

To conclude my last project; on the picture it all comes nicely together; the monitor-arm for the microscope and the belt-driven Jacot tool.

The microscope is equipped with the original 1:1 lens (7x-45x magnification) which gives, positioned above the jacot tool, the perfect working height.

Initial test, everything works a treat 

[oldhippy]

Don't you find all that reflection a hindrance.  Or do you wear sun glasses.

Edited July 12, 2023 by oldhippy

[Endeavor]

5 hours ago, oldhippy said:

Don't you find all that reflection a hindrance

Just the picture

 

[oldhippy]

There was me thinking you had sunglasses on while watchmaking.

[RichardHarris123]

I once couldn't understand why I couldn't see better with my glasses on. Simple answer, I  was using sunglasses instead of my reading glasses.  I can be incredibly stupid at times   hehe. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

10 hours ago, Endeavor said:

To conclude my last project; on the picture it all comes nicely together; the monitor-arm for the microscope and the belt-driven Jacot tool.

The microscope is equipped with the original 1:1 lens (7x-45x magnification) which gives, positioned above the jacot tool, the perfect working height.

Initial test, everything works a treat 

Looks cosy and way more tidy than mine at the moment plus neat idea for spare laminate flooring for a desk top

[VWatchie]

11 hours ago, Endeavor said:

Initial test, everything works a treat 

Looks fantastic and I especially enjoy the wall clock! 

Warning OT, but I hope I may be excused!

Well, I don't have a belt-driven Jacot tool, so for now, I will just have to settle with my extendable Yoyo keyring, but it works well enough for me so I'm certainly not complaining. Had my wife record a Youtube short video while I was working on restoring a centre wheel. I really appreciate the Jacot. Without it, many fine vintage watches would not get a second life.

 

 

Edited July 12, 2023 by VWatchie

[nickelsilver]

The yoyo keyring is essentially how I learned with elastic "string". Moved on to bow mostly out of convenience, set up roll, go. In later life the bow has held.

[Endeavor]

9 hours ago, oldhippy said:

There was me thinking you had sunglasses on while watchmaking

One can't have enough light, and as you can see, I've plenty

 

7 hours ago, VWatchie said:

I especially enjoy the wall clock!

A hourly reminder

Took me some time to get the ticking sound down; weaker mainspring, adjustment of the Geneva-stop, isolation inside the movement compartment, and especially from the back since the bell-shape outer-ring acts like an amplifier. Currently one can hardly hear it anymore; wife happy

 

8 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

neat idea for spare laminate flooring for a desk top

It's linoleum with wood print, leftover pieces from our kitchen flooring. Easy to replace once damaged, as I use the table for all sorts of hobby-activities.

[Endeavor]

It's not until now that I started practicing the motor driven Jacot tool. So far, I'm very pleased with the progress and the workings of my "design" / setup.

Here my first attempt with a balance pivot in a size 11/100 Lantern.

It's all very tiny and I need the microscope to be able to see what I'm doing. And yes, I'm left handed

Here the foot-switch, on the floor underneath the table. It would have been nice with a bigger switch-area and a heavier unit, but I had this "end-switch" on hand and it works

Edited February 17, 2024 by Endeavor

[oldhippy]

Why motor driven. Can't you manage using a bow and find it difficult or is it to speed up your work which I do not recommend as you do not have control as you would with a bow.   

[Endeavor]

2 hours ago, oldhippy said:

Why motor driven.

With all respect, but in modern times cars do have engines complete with full control too. I wanted to proceed

Edited February 17, 2024 by Endeavor

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, Endeavor said:

It's not until now that I started practicing the motor driven Jacot tool. So far, I'm very pleased with the progress and the workings of my "design" / setup.

Here my first attempt with a balance pivot in a size 11/100 Lantern.

It's all very tiny and I need the microscope to be able to see what I'm doing. And yes, I'm left handed

Here the foot-switch, on the floor underneath the table. It would have been nice with a bigger switch-area and a heavier unit, but I had this "end-switch" on hand and it works

I tried this with a using a dremel for a drive  motor. Its not quite so much fun polishing a pivot in a runner bed. Speed needs to very slow and concentration high. 

[oldhippy]

Are you saying it has a cut off switch? I'm hopeless with modern things.

 

[Endeavor]

42 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Are you saying it has a cut off switch?

Yes, it has seamless adjustable speed control (2nd picture, the black round knob on top of the control/drive unit) and an instant cut-off by means of a foot-switch; 4th picture

 

 

 

Edited February 17, 2024 by Endeavor

[oldhippy]

Thanks for explaining it.  I'm so out of touch with some modern things. 

[Endeavor]

1 hour ago, oldhippy said:

I'm so out of touch with some modern things. 

People like you are invaluable on this forum

[mikepilk]

I've broken two pivots when I got out of sync - I wasn't holding the pivot down hard enough in the slot and the balance jumped out. I'm not sure how I'd manage with a motor driven tool 

[Neverenoughwatches]

2 hours ago, mikepilk said:

I've broken two pivots when I got out of sync - I wasn't holding the pivot down hard enough in the slot and the balance jumped out. I'm not sure how I'd manage with a motor driven tool 

Full concentration needed and a low running speed, my first attempt flipped the balance across my bench. 

[JohnR725]

7 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I tried this with a using a dremel for a drive  motor. Its not quite so much fun polishing a pivot in a runner bed. Speed needs to very slow and concentration high. 

it appears to be that the speed is controllable and are you suggesting that he doesn't have enough concentration?

 

4 hours ago, mikepilk said:

I've broken two pivots when I got out of sync - I wasn't holding the pivot down hard enough in the slot and the balance jumped out. I'm not sure how I'd manage with a motor driven tool 

just think he would have both hands free versus one hand tied up with the bow I wonder if that would make any difference at all? Then I imagine the belt when you stop stops really fast it doesn't just continue to run totally out of control. I believe he said he had a on-off switch switch should be really fast turning on and off probably much faster than somebody trying to run both hands at the same time.

[Neverenoughwatches]

2 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

it appears to be that the speed is controllable and are you suggesting that he doesn't have enough concentration?

Just offering advice that when he tries polishing the pivot in a runner bed the concentration needed to be more and the motor speed slower than when shaping the pivot end. Its not as easy and is less fun ( or more fun depending on your interpretation of fun ). 

[JohnR725]

1 minute ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Its not as easy and is less fun ( or more fun depending on your interpretation of fun ).

the problem is there's lots of variables here and it looks like he's handled the speed control nicely and I don't know about your setup whether you had the same control of speed situation etc. but it does seem interesting of that newfangled technology should not be used with old technology because it goes against the beliefs. If you want to see some fun find traditional watchmakers and start talking about CNC and they get really cranky fast they do not embrace modern technology and I have to wonder if that's what's happening here the inability to accept there might be a better way perhaps. Remember when this tool was invented that probably didn't even have electricity. So if they did have electricity would they have done it differently or would they make us use the bow because they like torturing us?

Then how easy is it really to learn how to use this tool? Whether using a belt or the bow or something else is this really an easy tool to use?

[Endeavor]

21 hours ago, mikepilk said:

I wasn't holding the pivot down hard enough

Of course, I can not talk about "long time experience" (I've just started), but from what I've observed is that if you don't keep the file flat on the runners-bed, the pivot has room to "escape; it rolls itself "out of bed" ( ) This hasn't anything to do with how hard you press down, the pivot has no mass, friction or power enough to push the file upwards.

Because my tool is belt-driven, next to having my both hands free, I can fully concentrate on the file and the pivot, which coincidentally are the two most important parts in this exercise.  If needed, I can support the hand holding the file with the other hand, or, with the other hand hold (additionally) the tip of the file for better control of the files angle. Also, IMHO, one doesn't need huge strokes with the file. In reality and under the microscope, a 1 cm stroke is already huge compared to the size of the pivot.

Also, having belt-driven, I can position the microscope right above the Jacot tool and have a good view of "what's happening". I've experienced too that the pivot nearly rolled "out of bed" (due to the "incorrect" position of the file), but since I had only one thing to concentrate & to focus on, I could stop immediately to prevent worse. I guess my brain doesn't like multi-tasking, hence having the Jacot tool belt-driven is for me the solution.

Of course, if the bow driving works for other people, perfect !

Two personal remarks I like to make, or better; "food for thought";

1) It seems to me that when trying the bow, the hand holding the file mimics the movement of the hand holding the bow, but obviously in the opposite direction. My file strokes were way too long, causing the file to "wobble", tilting off the beds horizontal plane and thereby giving the pivot room to "escape". Nickelsilver's video showed how he controls the stoke-length and the position of the file, a method initially unknown to me. Since I now can fully concentrate on the file and the pivot (the rest is taken care of), that problem is solved.

2) When I was into old Land Rovers, I took an off-roading coarse in the Belgium Ardennes, conducted by a man who participated multiple times in the Paris-Dakar rally. He made a remark which always stayed with me: "When you go too fast, unwanted things start you to overcome".

Edited February 18, 2024 by Endeavor

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, Endeavor said:

When you go too fast, unwanted things start you to overcome".

Very true, we are great at adapting to any given situation.