Unusual Repair Techniques?

[DrHWO]

Apologies for the lack of photos on this occasion. I'm currently working on a 1971 Seiko 5206A  which I purchased from eBay as a non runner. I found 2 things I wasn't expecting. The first was the solid end of the barrel arbour had been punched (maybe with a centre punch). I'm assuming the intent here was to address too much play? I've only seen it the "other way around" where the hole would be  reduced and then broached. The arbour was stuck fast in the hole and needed some pressure to release it. My first question therefore is "Is this a recognised / useful technique?"

The other surprise was that in the very centre (underside) of the barrel and train wheel bridge there was a homemade spacing washer (unlisted on the parts list) which looked as though it had been fashioned from a tin of cat food by a mad man with a chainsaw. So my second question - is this a known technique and what is it to address?

I've found vanishingly few uTube videos on this movement.

Any advice would be most useful!

5206A in Colour.pdf

[oldhippy]

That is what I would call bodged up repairs. You will find all sorts of terrible repairs. Welcome to the world of watchmaking.  

[DrHWO]

3 hours ago, oldhippy said:

That is what I would call bodged up repairs. You will find all sorts of terrible repairs. Welcome to the world of watchmaking.  

Ahhh, so probably not Seiko approved! I'm going to give this a go. Voyage of discovery and all that. Anything you can bodge, I can bodge better (sounds like a song)

[Canadianwatchmaker]

Hello, way to go on starting watchmaking journey. I have had many crazy repair methods  come acorss my bench over the years. If you can upload some photo’s, I might be able to help as best I can. The most common alterations I have witnessed are, bent regulator pins and bent banking bins. Keep a look out for these also. 

[watchweasol]

Hi  welcome to the forum,  pictures of the said botches would be appreciated.  closing barrel arbour holes can be done but not with a 7lb hammer and a punch. when doe correctly its not noticable bits of tin / shims,  definitley a bodge,

[DrHWO]

Thanks team. Apologies for the lack of pix. The camera in my phone packed up. Will have to crack out the big guns next time. I ended up broaching the barrel arbour hole until it was a nice fit (Currently have no personal feel for what amount of play needed). I refashioned the cat food tin lid bodge with dial washers and suitable punches (using  the existing dimensions ), put the lot through my home made washing machine and reassembled the movement. It runs, albeit slow. Timegrapher shows -30s , amplitude 140, beat error 1.8ms (which it seems I can only make worse by adjustment). Now I'm left wondering whether this is my newbie crappy techniques, a buggered 50 year old mainspring or the bodge legacy (or all three). Although, to be honest, it felt good to see the movement reanimated. I'm going to strip the movement down again and put in a new mainspring in the first instance.

[Neverenoughwatches]

On 7/19/2023 at 6:28 PM, DrHWO said:

looked as though it had been fashioned from a tin of cat food by a mad man with a chainsaw. So my second question - is this a known technique and what is it to address?

Absolutely it is doc, i raid my neighbour's recycled bin for them. And yes i find the chainsaw greatly speeds up the process of shaping custom parts. And no i don't give out my  address to strangers. 

41 minutes ago, DrHWO said:

I ended up broaching the barrel arbour hole until it was a nice fit (Currently have no personal feel for what amount of play needed). 

When I've broached and I'm not entirely sure this is a practised method. Broach until the arbor can just be shaken out of the hole. Then test with the arbor and barrel held between tweezers by the barrel and use a blower to spin the barrel. Its a good indication of freedom. When broaching mark the broach with a fine felt tip to help gauge how far you are opening up and broach each side of the hole equally to minimise any taper . That way you should end up with a peek in the center that should wear away quickly and leave a fairly cylindrical hole. 

[Knebo]

On 7/19/2023 at 7:28 PM, DrHWO said:

homemade spacing washer (unlisted on the parts list) which looked as though it had been fashioned from a tin of cat food by a mad man with a chainsaw.

I can respect the creativity on this one and I'm grateful for the laugh I just had. 

 

On 7/19/2023 at 7:28 PM, DrHWO said:

The first was the solid end of the barrel arbour had been punched (maybe with a centre punch). I'm assuming the intent here was to address too much play? I've only seen it the "other way around"

But this one is just crazy. Also imagine the amount of force it would need (at least compared to the "other way around"). The guy must have beaten it like crazy. Still, impressive actually that he managed to deform the arbor without completing shattering it. 

[DrHWO]

2 hours ago, Knebo said:

Also imagine the amount of force it would need....

I got the impression it was done with the arbour in situ (given that the surfaces were stuck together and no rotation was possible). Interestingly, when I finally got the arbour out of its hole (at least according to my Mitutoyo), the diameter was only 0.03mm out of round. It was that that gave me the confidence to try to broach the hole.