What can cause higher frequency ?

[brunomartins]

Hi! 
What can cause a higher beat frequency? The watch I am servicing is a 28,800 beat but after a little shock it’s like 30,600 or higher with a rate above 200s/d.

The balance looks fine and the staff as well.

[RichardHarris123]

Could the hairspring be magnetised? 

[HectorLooi]

This is usually caused by a distorted hairspring.  The sudden shock can flex the hairspring until it picks up a bend. If you observe the hairspring at rest, you may be able to see it bunch up more on one side. 

If you have never done hairspring work before, this can be a harrowing experience. I would advise you to practise on a scrap movement first, until you have gained enough experience before working on your own watch.

BTW, what movement are you working on. And if possible, could you post some high magnification photos of your balance at rest.

[brunomartins]

2 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

This is usually caused by a distorted hairspring.  The sudden shock can flex the hairspring until it picks up a bend. If you observe the hairspring at rest, you may be able to see it bunch up more on one side. 

If you have never done hairspring work before, this can be a harrowing experience. I would advise you to practise on a scrap movement first, until you have gained enough experience before working on your own watch.

BTW, what movement are you working on. And if possible, could you post some high magnification photos of your balance at rest.

Thank you for this info. 
It’s a Longines 6922 that was working great after replace some parts with a original movement I’ve got recently.

Maybe there’s some distortion but I can tell it.

here some magnified.

[Nucejoe]

Which parts did you change?

[brunomartins]

31 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

Which parts did you change?

Balance complete with bridge and barrel with mainspring

[nickelsilver]

-How are you measuring this disturbance?

 

-How long does it last?

 

-What does "a little shock" equate to?

 

 

I'm guessing you're not measuring with a real timing machine? These use a window of measurement and average over that time. I never use less than 10 seconds. Just shifting the mic from one position to another will throw things off for a good 10s.

[HectorLooi]

Definitely bunched up here.

[brunomartins]

20 minutes ago, nickelsilver said:

-How are you measuring this disturbance?

 

-How long does it last?

 

-What does "a little shock" equate to?

 

 

I'm guessing you're not measuring with a real timing machine? These use a window of measurement and average over that time. I never use less than 10 seconds. Just shifting the mic from one position to another will throw things off for a good 10s.

I use timegrapher app. I know it’s not that accurate but give me a good idea what’s the condition. 
The watch is going like +1h after 30h.

The shock was like a fall from 3 feet high

Edited July 24, 2023 by brunomartins

[Nucejoe]

2 hours ago, brunomartins said:

Balance complete with bridge and barrel with mainspring

And exact same caliber they were.

1 hour ago, brunomartins said:

The shock was like a fall from 3 feet high

Thats strong man, need to examine the hairspring, might be fouling itself or rub on balance spokes, cock, not centered ....etc

Edited July 24, 2023 by Nucejoe

[brunomartins]

2 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

And exact same caliber they were.

Thats strong man, need to examine the hairspring, might be fouling itself or rub on balance spokes, cock, not centered ....etc

Used same caliber (I have got a full movement with nice condition).

yes I will keep looking for something. I was wondering if this behaviour could be any issue in other part

Edited July 25, 2023 by brunomartins

[Nucejoe]

1 hour ago, brunomartins said:

yes I will keep looking for something. I was wondering if this behaviour could be any issue in other part

 No, not in other parts, an hour a day fast is an Oscilator issue most likely hairspring fouling itself or  most outer coil has jumped to outer side of the stud or touching spokes or cock.  ie; any senario that shortens the breathing length of hairspring.

Presumably you are talking the watch on wrist or on bench and not on timing machine/ app. 

A video of oscilator running helps, a side view of hairspring and one lookin streight down on the coil.

Rgds

 

 

 

 

 

[brunomartins]

36 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

 No, not in other parts, an hour a day fast is an Oscilator issue most likely hairspring fouling itself or  most outer coil has jumped to outer side of the stud or touching spokes or cock.  ie; any senario that shortens the breathing length of hairspring.

Presumably you are talking the watch on wrist or on bench and not on timing machine/ app. 

A video of oscilator running helps, a side view of hairspring and one lookin streight down on the coil.

Rgds

 

 

 

 

 

Hope the pics are useful

 

Edited July 25, 2023 by brunomartins

[Nucejoe]

 As said the coil is " definately"  pushed to the side,( its closer to the stud), should be centered , concentric, flat and level.

This is likely all that needs fixing, then clean, rinse and demag.

 

PS:   Rarely a gear of a vaiarnt  might interchange ( fit  ) another variant of different beat. The result then is obvious, hands show different rate. 

Good luck.

[HectorLooi]

Before you take the hairspring off the balance, try this.

Use a clean oiler and gently push the hairspring outwards against the boot of the regulator as shown. Most of the time, impact to the watch causes the hairspring to distort at the fixed points. ie. the regulator or the hairspring stud. Yours seem to have flexed at the regulator.

Push gently and see if the coils open up at the bunched up area.

[JohnR725]

11 hours ago, brunomartins said:

timegrapher app

 APP is a definite problem. Often times we will be trying to solve imaginary problems because apps typically don't work very well although they do seem to work better if you have an  external pickup designed for watches.

Then yes the hairspring is definitely having an issue.

 

[Knebo]

19 hours ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Could the hairspring be magnetised? 

@brunomartins did you check this?

There are even smartphone apps that use the compass in your phone to check for magnetism. 

And a cheap blue demagnetizer will cost only 10-15 USD/EUR.

While the pictures do indeed suggest a bent hairspring, you should FIRST eliminate magnetism as a possible source of the issue. Bending a hairspring for the first time is more likely to make it worse...I'm taking from (bad) experience.