Seiko Bellmatic 4006 - project

[rossjackson01]

I've been learning this wonderful hobby for 21 month. Still learning. However, I now feel confident enough to tackle my first major project.

Seiko Bellmatic 4006.

Just arrived form the seller. Started the disassemble. Need parts. Beginning the source. Stem, crown, pusher and stem, setting wheel holders and may be a new alarm setting wheel. Phew! But as said, I  do feel confident enough to start and complete the restoration.

 

 

 

 

[rehajm]

That's an ambitious restoration. Will enjoy seeing the result as I'm quite fond of the alarm watches..

[rossjackson01]

Thank you John and rehajm for the thumbs up. It is most appreciated. 

[mikepilk]

I have a couple of these. I serviced about 50 watches before attempting one of these.  They are a little tricky with lots of springs and levers, but the Seiko service guide is very good, there are some good walk-throughs, and we are here to help 

Some of the levers !

 

[rossjackson01]

Mikepilk

It is because of you members that I am attempting this project. The guidance I have received has given me the confidence. As you rightly said many moons ago. Practice. I'm doing the case deep clean. It's looking good. Just trying to obtain the correct crystal. It's a crystal maze trying to figure out the correct Seiko numbers (pun intended). I only require a few parts, but my, are they expensive. For me anyway. 

Thank you for the photograph.

I'm using YouTube's Weekend Watch Repairs video as my deep guide. 

Ross

[mikepilk]

I just followed the service guide . It's literally a step by step guide :  Seiko 4006A Service Guide.pdf

[rehajm]

20 minutes ago, mikepilk said:

I just followed the service guide . It's literally a step by step guide :  Seiko 4006A Service Guide.pdf

Yes, vintage Seiko models come with a free service manual!

Edited August 17, 2023 by rehajm

[rossjackson01]

2 hours ago, rehajm said:

Yes, vintage Seiko models come with a free service manual!

Mikepilk . Thank you. Better copy than my original. 

Edited August 17, 2023 by rossjackson01

[thor447]

Here is a color copy along with an oiling guide.

 

Seiko-4006A_TECH.pdf Seiko-4006A_TECH_Oil.pdf

[rossjackson01]

2 minutes ago, thor447 said:

Here is a color copy along with an oiling guide.

 

Seiko-4006A_TECH.pdf 17.69 MB · 2 downloads Seiko-4006A_TECH_Oil.pdf 1.27 MB · 3 downloads

Thank you. Placed into my reference file for the 4006a. 

I do have another question

Anyone any idea of the part number for the relevant Seiko Crystal for the 4006 7002. Caseback number 263957. Can't figure out CousinsUK, and other ebay providers have other numbers that I can not relate to. Advice gratefully accepted. As I said. Written documentation defeats me.

[thor447]

11 minutes ago, rossjackson01 said:

Thank you. Placed into my reference file for the 4006a. 

I do have another question

Anyone any idea of the part number for the relevant Seiko Crystal for the 4006 7002. Caseback number 263957. Can't figure out CousinsUK, and other ebay providers have other numbers that I can not relate to. Advice gratefully accepted. As I said. Written documentation defeats me.

Cousins item # S15720.  Seiko crystal part number is 325T02ANS0.  You can use Sternkreuz XAC326.534.  It also comes with the tension ring.

https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/special-profile-chrome-ring-xac?code=S15720

[mikepilk]

Ross, you probably already have the Seiko casing guides? If not, follow the link below.

You can find the crystal number (and other case parts) in them.

   

 

[rehajm]

2 hours ago, mikepilk said:

Ross, you probably already have the Seiko casing guides? If not, follow the link below.

You can find the crystal number (and other case parts) in them.

   

 

I didn’t…and there’s a sick Turtle coming in the post. Thank you!

[rossjackson01]

Where am I up to? Mission Impossible.

Following the excellent video on YouTube I began the teardown. So pleased I had this video to follow.  And using the Seiko guide.

Even before I began I knew I had to have parts. Stem, crown and pusher. I got the watch knowing this, and it was part of my project.

Opening the back began the proper problems. 

No casing spring

Framework for the automatic device. - only one screw, which was lose.

Pallet cock - one screw missing.

4 screws missing in various plates.

 

Dial side

Date guard - only one screw fitted. 2 missing

Now the fun started, or didn't. Depending how you feel.

Missing - Intermediate date wheel. Intermediate date driving wheel. Setting wheel rocker. Alarm wheel. Intermediate unlocking wheel. Alarm setting wheel holder. Date jumper. Date jumper spring.

All in all, there are 16 items missing, not counting screws

Bunny, happy. Not.

 

Will I let this deter me? No flaming way....

As a hobbyist I know I will get setbacks, Project Bellmatic is still on going. I will not give up. Renamed as 'Project Bellmatic long haul'.

It's unfortunate that, and I do think it is my own fault, I am too trusting. I think that everyone is going to treat me the way that I treat them. The number of watches I have received, 'stops after a short wind, needs a service' is beyond a joke. I know why they do it. Money. But to have taken the time to bad repair a watch in the first place? 

Rant over.

Ross

Edited August 21, 2023 by rossjackson01

[tomh207]

@rossjackson01 sadly it very much sounds like someone has offloaded their parts watch to you after they have taken the harvest of screws and wheels.

 

Tom

[mikepilk]

I agree with @tomh207, sounds like it's been a parts watch.

Using the Jules Borel Database you can find which other Seiko movements share the parts you need.
But the alarm stuff only comes from 4006 movements.

I would look for another 'parts' movement on ebay, and assemble one movement from the two.  
Speedtimerkollektion usually have a good collection of Seiko parts - they have some of the parts you need, but they are asking 127 Euros just for defective watches.

BTW I never buy a watch unless I can see good pics of the movement. You can at least get some idea of the condition and if any parts are missing.

[rossjackson01]

14 minutes ago, mikepilk said:

I agree with @tomh207, sounds like it's been a parts watch.

Using the Jules Borel Database you can find which other Seiko movements share the parts you need.
But the alarm stuff only comes from 4006 movements.

I would look for another 'parts' movement on ebay, and assemble one movement from the two.  
Speedtimerkollektion usually have a good collection of Seiko parts - they have some of the parts you need, but they are asking 127 Euros just for defective watches.

BTW I never buy a watch unless I can see good pics of the movement. You can at least get some idea of the condition and if any parts are missing.

Tom and Mikepilk. I note your comments. 

Part harvest. I'd like to harvest their parts.

Parts. I am able, using the information from members, to locate all of the parts from various locations. As stated, the cost of those parts individually exceeds the sot of purchase. Nearly double in fact. 

Looking in depth. My new watchword.

Regards

Ross

[mikepilk]

39 minutes ago, rossjackson01 said:

I am able, using the information from members, to locate all of the parts from various locations. As stated, the cost of those parts individually exceeds the sot of purchase. Nearly double in fact. 

I think you could find just about all the parts you need on ebay,, but like you say, the cost of buying them separately is too expensive.

That's why I suggest you keep checking ebay for 4006 movements for sale (worldwide). I have several watches sat on the shelf waiting for parts to come up on ebay. 

How was the watch advertised, were there pics of the movement ?

[SpringMangler]

Ross, I've been stung a number of times with people being 'economical with the truth' on eBay. Not just on watches but other items I've bought over the years.

It does appear these days that a number of people have taken up horology, then find it's not easy or they've bought a dud and dump it on eBay. I'm starting to see 'mumbai specials' being sold from the UK, mostly from people who've been conned into buying them. Had it lately with an Oris Super that had the dial glued on with the glue having dripped into other parts of the movement and, as with yours, there were screws missing. Had to buy another movement which arrived in better condition than the one I had to end up with a working watch.

Seems to be par for the course these days and, as parts get scarcer, we are going to see more of it.

Look at it as a long term project, and get to know how the movement and its complications work whilst waiting for the parts. Silver cloud and all that.

I'm sure a few of us will be keeping an eye out for a movement or parts that you need.

[Neverenoughwatches]

9 hours ago, rossjackson01 said:

Where am I up to? Mission Impossible.

Following the excellent video on YouTube I began the teardown. So pleased I had this video to follow.  And using the Seiko guide.

Even before I began I knew I had to have parts. Stem, crown and pusher. I got the watch knowing this, and it was part of my project.

Opening the back began the proper problems. 

No casing spring

Framework for the automatic device. - only one screw, which was lose.

Pallet cock - one screw missing.

4 screws missing in various plates.

 

Dial side

Date guard - only one screw fitted. 2 missing

Now the fun started, or didn't. Depending how you feel.

Missing - Intermediate date wheel. Intermediate date driving wheel. Setting wheel rocker. Alarm wheel. Intermediate unlocking wheel. Alarm setting wheel holder. Date jumper. Date jumper spring.

All in all, there are 16 items missing, not counting screws

Bunny, happy. Not.

 

Will I let this deter me? No flaming way....

As a hobbyist I know I will get setbacks, Project Bellmatic is still on going. I will not give up. Renamed as 'Project Bellmatic long haul'.

It's unfortunate that, and I do think it is my own fault, I am too trusting. I think that everyone is going to treat me the way that I treat them. The number of watches I have received, 'stops after a short wind, needs a service' is beyond a joke. I know why they do it. Money. But to have taken the time to bad repair a watch in the first place? 

Rant over.

Ross

Aw Ross that really sucks mate, I'm bloody miserable for you .  But defeatist you are not, and the MAN you most certainly are my brother

7 hours ago, rossjackson01 said:

Part harvest. I'd like to harvest their parts.

i would not like to get on the wrong side of you just now Ross, i know your hands are lethal weapons lol. 

35 minutes ago, SpringMangler said:

Ross, I've been stung a number of times with people being 'economical with the truth' on eBay. Not just on watches but other items I've bought over the years.

It does appear these days that a number of people have taken up horology, then find it's not easy or they've bought a dud and dump it on eBay. I'm starting to see 'mumbai specials' being sold from the UK, mostly from people who've been conned into buying them. Had it lately with an Oris Super that had the dial glued on with the glue having dripped into other parts of the movement and, as with yours, there were screws missing. Had to buy another movement which arrived in better condition than the one I had to end up with a working watch.

Seems to be par for the course these days and, as parts get scarcer, we are going to see more of it.

Look at it as a long term project, and get to know how the movement and its complications work whilst waiting for the parts. Silver cloud and all that.

I'm sure a few of us will be keeping an eye out for a movement or parts that you need.

Yep SM, these watchbreakers have the same movements going round and round on ebay until some decent bloke cops for the motherload of it. My opinion of the lot of them,  stewards working behind bars .

[thor447]

Ross,

I probably have all of those parts.  I have a 'donor' movement that is basically complete, but it is in pieces right now.  If you need I can try to assemble it and if everything is there, ship it to you (might take a while with it being international).  I know I have a NOS case spring because my recent project was missing one as well, and so I ordered two of them so I'd have a stock for future use.  Let me know if you need any help sourcing these items.

[rossjackson01]

What lovely people you all are. Will let you know how successful I get. 

So!

My new old projects. 

1. Watches of Switzerland Seafarer with an ETA 1789-1 movement. Balance is not good, but I now have a donor (balance is probably shot in this one, knowing my luck)

2. I have a lovely Enicar with am AR 167 movement. No dial or rotor screw.  New dial given to me from a wonderful person.  Donor movement obtained. Donor, movement only, is in better condition than the original. Will clean and start the install. 

I've been putting both of these of until I thought I have the requisite skill. Now feel that I am there. Time to put my knowledge to the test.

Thank you to you all for the push. Regards

Ross

[Neverenoughwatches]

22 minutes ago, rossjackson01 said:

What lovely people you all are. Will let you know how successful I get. 

So!

My new old projects. 

1. Watches of Switzerland Seafarer with an ETA 1789-1 movement. Balance is not good, but I now have a donor (balance is probably shot in this one, knowing my luck)

2. I have a lovely Enicar with am AR 167 movement. No dial or rotor screw.  New dial given to me from a wonderful person.  Donor movement obtained. Donor, movement only, is in better condition than the original. Will clean and start the install. 

I've been putting both of these of until I thought I have the requisite skill. Now feel that I am there. Time to put my knowledge to the test.

Thank you to you all for the push. Regards

Ross

We all need some encouragement now and then Ross. Affraid i cant help with anything Seiko, very little knowledge and no parts at all. But what i can offer i you ever need is a watch stem of around 1000 calibers or a balance staff when you get to the point of being able to change one of somewhere in the region of 3000 calibre. Yours just for the asking matey.

[rossjackson01]

23 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

We all need some encouragement now and then Ross. Affraid i cant help with anything Seiko, very little knowledge and no parts at all. But what i can offer i you ever need is a watch stem of around 1000 calibers or a balance staff when you get to the point of being able to change one of somewhere in the region of 3000 calibre. Yours just for the asking matey.

As I said. What lovely people you are.

Balance staff repair. Maybe after Christmas when I have saved enough to get a Chinese staking set. I'm getting there with using the microscope to repair a hairspring. Still don't work, but they do look better. 

Regards

Ross

Edited August 21, 2023 by rossjackson01
Spelling, Grammar

[Neverenoughwatches]

4 minutes ago, rossjackson01 said:

As I said. What lovely people you are.

Balance staff repair. Maybe after Christmas when I have saved enough to get a Chinese staking set. I'm getting there with using the microscope to repair a hairspring. Still don't work, but they do look better. 

Regards

Ross

Hairsprings are great fun, been wrestling with one myself after checking its timing. Had it all back together after a month of sporadic fiddling. Put it on the tg, slow rate and low amplitude, under the microscope only to discover the balance staff i had changed ages ago, I had now broken it's top pivot, grrrrr.  Fortunately i have another 20 or so, i think I've figured out from the break that the pivot is a tight fit in the jewel . Watch repair eh, do we love it ? or do we hate it ?   Bit of both