Clock timer tool

[LittleWatchShop]

This has been on my list of TBDs for more than a year.  I just want something that will measure the time between tics and ouput toc-tic and tic-toc times plus the sum so that I can measure beat performance and rate.

I hacked this together this morning.  All I am measuring here is button pushes.  I will ad the analog input for the piezo sensor later.

First two numbers are the toc-tic-toc beat times and the last number is the sum of the two.  All in milliseconds.

Apart from a case and some bells and whistles, I should be able to build this for under $20.

 

[JohnR725]

1 hour ago, LittleWatchShop said:

I should be able to build this for under $20.

Don't you have a PhD in electrical engineering? So if you can build it for $20 what can the rest of us build one for? Or probably be more precise what would it cost everybody else excluding you and me that have a huge stockpile of electronic stuff?

 

 

 

[LittleWatchShop]

Yes I do have a Ph.D. Please call me Doctor Little Watch Shop!!

The LCD shield is 8 bucks.

An Arduino UNO is about 7 bucks on eBay.

I have not designed the sensor yet, but hoping I can do it with 2n2222 or equiv. and a piezo. That is under a buck.

Bare bones.

[JohnR725]

7 minutes ago, LittleWatchShop said:

designed the sensor

Thinking about sensors you should also look into an optical sensor. Often times for clocks they like optical sensors.

 

8 minutes ago, LittleWatchShop said:

Arduino UNO is about 7 bucks on eBay.

Yes this is an interesting world we live in where for very little money you can make some really impressive projects versus what we could do when we were learning. Even just trying to get a microprocessor for seven dollars used to be an issue.

[LittleWatchShop]

I have pondered an optical sensor, but never converged on a solution I like. Worth a second look.

[oldhippy]

You clever bugger. Well done you. 

[RichardHarris123]

Clever indeed but I'm confused.  What advantages has this over a timegrapher?  Should the first two numbers be similar?  Is the last number used to calculate rate?  If so I get 10.2k vph. 

[LittleWatchShop]

32 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Clever indeed but I'm confused.  What advantages has this over a timegrapher?  Should the first two numbers be similar?  Is the last number used to calculate rate?  If so I get 10.2k vph. 

Timegrapher is for watches. This is for clocks.

Yes, first two numbers should be equal

 

[JohnR725]

15 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Clever indeed but I'm confused.  What advantages has this over a timegrapher

It's the beginning of a timing machine for clocks.

18 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Should the first two numbers be similar?

Those two numbers are the timing of the tic-toc Yes they should be similar if the clock was in the but this clock is not in beat and you notice those numbers are huge compared to watch timing machine that has a maximum 9.9 ms.

20 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

calculate rate

Let's look at the timing machine like the Chinese 1000 frequencies.

So typically with a watch timing machine we have the standard default frequencies in auto mode. Then you have the other frequencies that it could be if you just happen to know what they are. If you had a witschi machine or some software-based machines you could ask he go to frequency mode and I'll tell you the beats per hour if you had some on the watch or a watch that's having a gross timing issue which can be really handy by the way. But even if you have the frequency mode you can't do the beat because it's way beyond what a timing machine at watch one would do

although in the case of the witschi machine if you had to pick up you could turn off everything except frequency mode and at least see the beats per hour of your clock so yes a watch timing machine could do a clock but that's not really the best use for it

now the biggest problem with the clock is the most part no standards. Then so I don't have to explain I found a nice link basically when you're making a clock you can do whatever the heck you feel like where watch seems to have restrictions which is why we of standard frequencies

Oh and the list they have back see have books that list hundreds of frequencies you look up the clock you have to see how many beats per hour it has an notice that some of these even have a fractional be per hour just because they can

https://minnesotawatches.com/clock-beat-rates/

So basically timing machine for clocks. Typically timing machine's for clocks never have graphical displays although it might be nice if it had one they just typically don't

 

 

[RichardHarris123]

Thanks all, there was a clue in the title, hehe.  I didn't know timing machines for clocks didn't exist, learn something new every day.  

[JohnR725]

1 hour ago, RichardHarris123 said:

I didn't know timing machines for clocks didn't exist,

They exist but where is the challenge if you're going to buy one versus you could make your own? Plus maybe could be improved upon.

This is an extremely popular one

https://www.bmumford.com/mset/

This company's been around for a very long time multiple generation of clock and watch machines.

https://adamsbrown.com/wordpress1/timetrax-timers/

The problem with bookmarks I accumulate a lot of them even searching for timing machine is a really helpful as I have too many. Not finding what I'm looking for but this was interesting that should never seen one of these? Yes I know this is a discussion about clock machines and know this is not for clocks but still it's a timing machine.

https://www.td-timer.ru/catalog/snyatye/ppch-1e.htm

 

 

 

 

[watchweasol]

Hi    I have a machine which analyses mechanical,   Quartz watches,   And clocks,   Built by Horometer. Some years back as a development machine and was sadly discontinued.   The basic machine is quite small and has three plug ins which it auto detects for the different disciplines   The clock plug in has a sensor on a flexible arm which detects the pendulum timing. The display uses the two track of lines as standard which allows for beat adjustment, why it never took off I don’t know as it’s a versatile little machine and takes up little bench space.

I also use a pick up and amplifier for clocks, it just amplifies the tick making it easier to get in beat, usefull on the 400 day clocks whos tick is very light.

[JohnR725]

1 hour ago, watchweasol said:

quite small

I don't suppose the size put people off? Yes it's a very interesting machine when there were closing them out on eBay I was very very tempted and then they were gone and my temptation was gone. In the absence of a picture of the size reference I'm attaching the users manual.

HOROMETER ENGLISH WEB 050111.pdf

[praezis]

Really interesting project (not quite yet, but coming?), I like it. Curious what the resulting product will be…

John pointed to the issues of clock timing machines very nicely. Imo there is no real demand for such device, but the journey to the end product may be fun and a learning experience. 

Certain clock owners rather long for data logging devices. One reason why Brian Mumford‘s machine is so popular.

A side note, if allowed: Free PCTM offers „finding the beat rate“ (others call it frequency mode ).

Quote

The LCD shield is 8 bucks.

An Arduino UNO is about 7 bucks on eBay.

I have not designed the sensor yet, but hoping I can do it with 2n2222 or equiv. and a piezo. That is under a buck.

But how high do you estimate your time of life /hour for developing the program? No value? 

Frank

[LittleWatchShop]

9 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

Oh and the list they have back see have books that list hundreds of frequencies you look up the clock you have to see how many beats per hour it has an notice that some of these even have a fractional be per hour just because they can

I have a Timetrax pdf of beat rates.  Not sure where I got it.

4 hours ago, praezis said:

But how high do you estimate your time of life /hour for developing the program? No value?

Value of time...the older I get the more value it is I guess.  I charge $400/hr for patent consulting and $500/hr in court or depositions.  So, nothing in the horological field competes with that.  However, I am winding down my patent work so that I have more time at less valuable ventures.

This effort has no financial end point...it is just for fun.  I will post my code when I am done (if I get done) and whomever is interested can go for it.

[JohnR725]

6 minutes ago, LittleWatchShop said:

Timetrax

I think I have two TimeTrax timers with a variety of Their various pickup types came with the machines. Plus I like the the basic clip on pickups were available separately really nice for DIY timing machine projects.  Oh and I also do have one of the Microset timers. One can't have enough timing machines. But to a certain degree if I can remember the clock machines tend to have well it basically could have better characteristics.

[LittleWatchShop]

Update.

Testing on a Junghans B20 and I have no idea what the beat rate SHOULD be.  My table only has the B10.

I am using my watch amplifier for now.

[HectorLooi]

Is the peizo pickup homemade? Looks like a crocodile clip soldered to a transducer.

[LittleWatchShop]

12 minutes ago, HectorLooi said:

Is the peizo pickup homemade? Looks like a crocodile clip soldered to a transducer.

But of course!!  It was simple to make.  Soldered on.

BTW, I cleaned up the waveform.  I have a grounding ESD mat and the grounding clip had come off...lol.

[watchweasol]

Hi been using this type pizo clip for a few years along with a Tandy telephone amplifier on clocks for a while also works with watches as a pick up.  Cheap cheerful and effective.

[Jacksotb]

Do you have any Build instructions ? Is there some code that has to be uploaded ?

Need more information .

[MikeEll]

Interesting project this, I’d like to build something similar when you’re ready to share instructions.  I use the ClockMaster app on an iPad for setting up clocks and regulating after a service.  You can calculate the bpm for any movement by simply counting the teeth on the relevant wheels if you have access to them. Very handy.  

[LittleWatchShop]

Like many projects I was distracted by shiny objects. I will look for the code. It is on another computer which is in another location. Feel free to bug me for it next week...I should be back where that computer is.