Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Posted

Hi, 

Just picked up this mystery watch from a local charity shop. Any thoughts?

All I know is the hallmark is for the Glasgow assay office dated 1916. The JW sponsors mark is a mystery and going to be a tough one to solve as the Glasgow office shut down in 1964 and the records have been lost.

This watch is also 80 times more radioactive than any other I've measured. Would love to have seen it glowing when new.

All the best

Alec 

 

0D0A0447.JPG

0D0A0443.JPG

0D0A0444.JPG

Screenshot 2023-09-13 at 14.24.14.png

Screenshot 2023-09-13 at 14.27.46.png

Posted

Lovely looking movement. It would be good to see under the dial and get a movement diameter to help identify it. Any marks under the balance?

I can feel it glowing from here 🤣   That's a lot of radium. The first thing I do with a radium watch is (wearing a mask) seal the dial and hands in a plastic bag. It looks to be a nice enamel dial, so removing the radium in water should be easy.

Posted

Hi Mike, I was just about to attempt a cheeky peek under the balance when I thought "let's check the dial for radium" and all works stopped for now.  

The movement is 27.8mm(ish) trying to measure it still cased. 

Posted
6 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

The lume is missing from the hands, imagine the reading when it was intact.  

What type of mask do you wear, @mikepilk ?

I use the N95 masks I bought in lockdown.
I cover the desk in clingfilm to prevent contamination, and wear latex gloves (maybe not necessary). I remove the radium with cotton wool buds and warm water. Everything I use which comes in to possible contact with radium, I seal in plastic bags and put in the household waste. The small amount of cleaning water, I soak in to kitchen paper and bag. I think it's OK to tip in down the drain (here in the UK).

There are plenty of opinions on just how dangerous radium is. The bottom line is you don't want it in your body. Taking the above steps is not difficult and should prevent a chance of ingestion of particles. Once under water, there's no chance of inhaling particles.

With some 'historic' watches some people prefer to leave the radium intact for authenticity. Painting a clear lacquer (nail varnish) over the radium will prevent particles flaking off. 

I have a 1940s Universal Geneve with a radium dial where it's not easy to remove the radium, and it looks better left original. I keep it sealed in plastic bag to (hopefully) keep the radon gas in.

37 minutes ago, AlecMac said:

This watch is also 80 times more radioactive than any other I've measured. Would love to have seen it glowing when new.

Out of interest, do you have a reading in of the radiation count?

Posted

There are two issues with radium dials. First the possible ingestion of radium. Secondly, when the radium atom emits an alpha particle it becomes a radon gas atom. 

https://www.northampton.ac.uk/news/wwii-military-watches-potentially-pose-serious-cancer-risk/

There are some internet experts who'll confidently assert that it's not a problem, but I'm going with the actual experts on this one and following something along the lines of Mike's regime.  

 

  • Like 1
Posted

I have done a far amount of reading on radium dials etc and I have have a  good base understanding of radioactive decay. I think that wearing gloves and a mask is adequate and your exposure time will be limited.  However I know some people are wary of working with radium. 

  • Like 1
Posted

Newbie guess - could it be a Wakmman - correct time frame, I have a small Swiss Walkman pocket watch with similar hands and radium issues. Incase you don't already have this info; 

In 1895, Mr. Wakmann was born in Russia with Jewish origins. 

1943 – During WWII

In the early stages of World War II (WWII), Mr. Wakmann started his watch business in Portugaland and had been representing several high-end European watch brands.  At the same time, warfare was spreading across Europe at a rapid pace.  During the Holocaust, the Wakmann family devoted great efforts in assisting refugees from the Nazi horror.

During WWII in North America, many American watch companies were put at a disadvantage.  Their production was switched to war products, while the Swiss watch manufacturers produced watches for war efforts and civilians.  As a result, the U.S.government decided to support the American watch industry.  The Swiss Watch Import Act was subsequently formed, and the U.S. Department of Commerce started to impose custom duties on high-end imported Swiss watches. 

Mr. Wakmann quickly recognized that this was an excellent opportunity to start his professional watch business in America.  Therefore, he travelled across the Atlantic Ocean, from Lisbon,Portugal toNew York City, with the aim of establishing his new business in North America– to fulfill his lifelong dream.

If not looking forward to seeing what it was all the best...Jules

 

Not Walkman - Wakmman! Spell checker again...

Posted
3 hours ago, mikepilk said:

Interesting experiment. 

There are a lot of components in modern engine oils, some of which may not be suitable for watch movements?

 

18 minutes ago, Juleswatch said:

Newbie guess - could it be a Wakmman - correct time frame, I have a small Swiss Walkman pocket watch with similar hands and radium issues. Incase you don't already have this info; 

In 1895, Mr. Wakmann was born in Russia with Jewish origins. 

1943 – During WWII

In the early stages of World War II (WWII), Mr. Wakmann started his watch business in Portugaland and had been representing several high-end European watch brands.  At the same time, warfare was spreading across Europe at a rapid pace.  During the Holocaust, the Wakmann family devoted great efforts in assisting refugees from the Nazi horror.

During WWII in North America, many American watch companies were put at a disadvantage.  Their production was switched to war products, while the Swiss watch manufacturers produced watches for war efforts and civilians.  As a result, the U.S.government decided to support the American watch industry.  The Swiss Watch Import Act was subsequently formed, and the U.S. Department of Commerce started to impose custom duties on high-end imported Swiss watches. 

Mr. Wakmann quickly recognized that this was an excellent opportunity to start his professional watch business in America.  Therefore, he travelled across the Atlantic Ocean, from Lisbon,Portugal toNew York City, with the aim of establishing his new business in North America– to fulfill his lifelong dream.

If not looking forward to seeing what it was all the best...Jules

 

Not Walkman - Wakmman! Spell checker again...

The case at least is from 1916 so before Wakmman existence.  The style of hands and radium dial are quite common.  If there's no makers mark under the balance or dial then using the best fit catalogue is the next step. 

Posted
21 minutes ago, Juleswatch said:

Newbie guess - could it be a Wakmman - correct time frame, I have a small Swiss Walkman pocket watch with similar hands and radium issues. Incase you don't already have this info; 

I've never heard of Wakmann, sounds Interesting.

27.8mm makes it about 12.5'''

There's no Wakmann in Ranfft, but in Bestfit for Wakmann it says "See Breitling".  Under Breitling there are no matching movements of that size. Identifying from the keyless would be best.

 

Posted

We have a bit of a problem with radium lume here in Scotland in the Firth of Forth. Apparently the MOD decided to dump aircraft instruments in the river after WW2 and the stuff gets washed up on the beach and gets collected when detected. It’s costing millions to do this year after year.

the most recent write up I can find is here

https://inews.co.uk/news/environment/dalgety-bay-radioactive-scottish-beach-almost-safe-33-years-2299839

They are collecting fragments around 1mm square which are considered dangerous apparently.

Tom

Posted
13 hours ago, AlecMac said:

his watch is also 80 times more radioactive than any other I've measured. Would love to have seen it glowing when new.

You would probably have needed sunglasses because the brightness Would blind you.

6 hours ago, tomh207 said:

We have a bit of a problem with radium lume here in Scotland in the Firth of Forth. Apparently the MOD decided to dump aircraft instruments in the river after WW2 and the stuff gets washed up on the beach and gets collected when detected. It’s costing millions to do this year after year.

You do realize the planet is a really big place. Then typical government military agencies the philosophy is out of sight out of mind don't worry about it ever again. So unfortunately for all of us  these problems are ongoing for the entire planet.

 

Oh give Scotland  how about  recycling is an example of a product that got recycled  into something interesting.. Don't worry you'll figure out really fast he gets really  excited about it. Yes something to keep you warm on a cold night  perhaps carried in your pocket although it does get a little bit on the warm side.

https://youtu.be/9Ry4QBQejFU?si=hgFjP2OGn3Jp8nus

 

 

  • Haha 1
Posted
1 hour ago, JohnR725 said:

You would probably have needed sunglasses because the brightness Would blind you.

You do realize the planet is a really big place. Then typical government military agencies the philosophy is out of sight out of mind don't worry about it ever again. So unfortunately for all of us  these problems are ongoing for the entire planet.

 

Oh give Scotland  how about  recycling is an example of a product that got recycled  into something interesting.. Don't worry you'll figure out really fast he gets really  excited about it. Yes something to keep you warm on a cold night  perhaps carried in your pocket although it does get a little bit on the warm side.

https://youtu.be/9Ry4QBQejFU?si=hgFjP2OGn3Jp8nus

 

 

@JohnR725 he must have done that for April fools day! Having served in the British army there is no Scottish army, only Scottish divisions. I would have loved that ration pack whilst serving. 😂

 

Tom

  • Haha 1
Posted
5 minutes ago, tomh207 said:

Scottish army, only Scottish divisions.

Interesting I never questioned whether is valid or not. I did find it was rather interesting and I really did like the heater. Now I feel sad because I thought the heater was interesting idea.

  • Like 1
Posted
6 hours ago, tomh207 said:

@JohnR725 he must have done that for April fools day! Having served in the British army there is no Scottish army, only Scottish divisions. I would have loved that ration pack whilst serving. 😂

 

Tom

Don’t think it’s a spoof. If was the disarray among the Scots regiments caused by the sinking of Iron Bru tanker, HMS Sauchiehall, that led to Dunkirk. 

  • Haha 1

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Typically watch manufacturing companies will purchase parts to their exact specifications including the jewels. This means that typically you may not find an exact generic replacement. I'm attaching a PDF of a book that explains how to replace jewels. Seitz book.pdf
    • Hey everyone! I sure this topic has probably been discussed before, but I want some good recommendations based on experience or knowledge about a good affordable high torque DC motor that I can use for my lathe. I have a little lathe but it has the regular old style motor that was used in the past with a foot controller. However, I would like to improve it by buy a nice motor with a speed controller so I don’t have to use my foot. I would like the motor to have really good torque so that even if I run it at a very low speed, it still can cut material easily. I saw online this brand called Servo sewing machine motor with a speed controller, but I don’t know how good they are and if they would work like I would like to for my lathe. Thank you for all the help!
    • Your only partially correct here. Let's look at a magnified view of the image up above. Then for a flat hairspring to function correctly there has to be a little bit of breathing room unfortunately. If you would like Better timekeeping if you get a watch with the over coil hairspring then those regulator pins are supposed to be as tight as possible but still allow the hairspring the slide. With if the pins are opened up at all you'll see a dramatic timing change based on amplitude. So in our example down below initially hairspring is basically free-floating not touching anything the effective length of the hairspring is at the stud. As the amplitude picks up at some point in time they hairspring will just tide should one pin on one swing and the other pin on the other swing. As soon as it does that it changes the effective length to being closer to the regulator pins. As the amplitude picks up more and more it's obviously touching the regulator pins more and more and the length of the hairspring shortens the watch speeds up. This is where in your video at around 16 minutes he opens up the regulator pins and the watch slows down. This is because they hairspring is no longer bouncing off either pin as much. Then because the watches running slow he speeds it up just to show that yes you could regulate the watch but now you have a problem. Because the regulator pins are much farther apart amplitude is going to have a much greater effect. Like in the image down below they hairspring is properly spaced between the pins. But if those pins are farther apart the effect of amplitude will be much greater. So he speeds up the watch to cancel out the effect of the regulator pins at the particular amplitude which was dial down then when he moves the watch to a crown position which will always have an amplitude decrease because the amount of friction on the sides of the pins now the hairspring is not touching the regulator pins as much and the watch dramatically slows down.   Let's look at the other example image. In this particular example they hairspring is actually touching the regulator pin at restWhich means the effective length of the hairspring is at the regulator pin the watch runs fast. As the amplitude picks up hairspring will lift off the PN moving the effective length towards the stud which is why the watches slowing down. As you can see is the amplitude picks up They hairspring is not centered C not getting even timekeeping and the watch is slowing even more down. But at some point in time when the amplitude gets high enough this will depend upon the watch the spacing Excedrin whatever the amplitude is will be balancing actually between the pins in the watch will of course speed up and then at some point time you reach that sweet spot where it's bouncing between the two pins but as you can see it's at a much higher amplitude. So this is why hairspring has to be properly centered between the pins and the pins have to be at the right spacing otherwise you going to get strange timekeeping based on amplitude which no matter what you're going to get a little bit of that as you do have to have a little bit a spacing. At least on a flat hairspring.  
    • My understanding is that In the Etachron system the spring is only centered n order to set the stud angle when the the pins are wide open and the regulator block in at the midway point.  After that the pins are rotated in one direction only so that the width between the spring and one of the studs is 1/2 width of the spring. This results in the spring always being closer to one stud than other one.   
    • The idea is that the spring is centred between the pins when at rest. Then when the watch is running it will oscillate equally between the pins i.e. bounce off one pin then the other, as the hairspring breathes. If the spring is only hitting one pin, then it isn't centred, and most likely the pins are too far apart. Yes, the regulator pins are there to adjust the effective length of the hairspring. The spacing of the regulator pins should not affect the amplitude.  The vertical positions typically have lower amplitude than the horizontal ones. This has nothing to with the regulator - hairspring interaction. Increased friction in the verticals sucks energy from the system and reduces the amplitude. If the amplitude is less, the breathing is less. More tim between the pins = more effective length. Depending on how well the hairspring is centred, and which direction it sags, some vertical positions might run faster than the horizontal ones, and others slower. For example, if the spring is off centre towards on pin, and pressed against it by gravity, it might never bounce off that pin => faster. At the position 180 deg. away, the spring will spend more time in between the pins => slower.
×
×
  • Create New...