Eta 2846-2 not running

[vivat]

Hello everyone, I'm almost done with this mechanism. I'm trying to restore fathers seastar tissot. There're no official parts for it so I'm bying new and new watches and non original parts. Now after collecting all of them balance is not running.

I disassembled it, it was not glued at the tip. Glued it and barely regulated the hairspring. But it's still not running at all. 

Help me please with any advice

[RichardHarris123]

Not sure if it's just the photo but the pallet fork where the impulse jewel connects looks bent. 

PS

Other than the jewels and the pivot, what is the correct nomenclature for the parts of a pallet?  Tried Google but to no avail. 

Just found the answer. 

[mikepilk]

You say it's a 2846 but on the plate it shows 28?8.  

45 minutes ago, vivat said:

There're no official parts for it so I'm bying new and new watches and non original 

There's plenty of new parts available for these movements. Where have you looked?
For instance, Cousins have a lot of parts for 2846, as do Jules Borel

Are the top balance jewel and spring sitting properly? It's hard to see as the pic is out of focus.

[vivat]

1 hour ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Not sure if it's just the photo but the pallet fork where the impulse jewel connects looks bent. 

PS

Other than the jewels and the pivot, what is the correct nomenclature for the parts of a pallet?  Tried Google but to no avail. 

Just found the answer. 

I'm not sure about the pallet fork but it works. When I push the balance wheel it give power to the fork. But it's not running by itself

[mikepilk]

With no power on the mainspring, give the balance a good blast with a puffer and see how long it oscillates - should be over 30s

[vivat]

31 minutes ago, mikepilk said:

You say it's a 2846 but on the plate it shows 28?8.  

There's plenty of new parts available for these movements. Where have you looked?
For instance, Cousins have a lot of parts for 2846, as do Jules Borel

Are the top balance jewel and spring sitting properly? It's hard to see as the pic is out of focus.

Well i'm sure about the jewel, but this spring makes me sad. Something might be not okey with.

May be everything is because the main plate is from China, but it looks quite ok.

I tried to put balance with 28.800 amplitude it wasn't working 

[RichardHarris123]

Post a better photo of the pallet. 

[vivat]

2 minutes ago, mikepilk said:

With no power on the mainspring, give the balance a good blast with a puffer and see how long it oscillates - should be over 30s

Oh okey, and if it'll be less than 30s the problem is in balance ?

1 hour ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Post a better photo of the pallet. 

Okey, tommorow I'll make better photos 

[Nucejoe]

5 hours ago, vivat said:

I  disassembled it, it was not glued at the tip. Glued it and barely regulated the hairspring. 

Whats not glued at the tip?

Edited September 24, 2023 by Nucejoe

[RichardHarris123]

10 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

Whats not glued at the tip?

I think he means the hairspring into the stud.

[Neverenoughwatches]

9 hours ago, RichardHarris123 said:

I think he means the hairspring into the stud.

I thought that as well, but i think he means this disconnection of a pallet slot jewel. Can only guess that the depth is wrong after re gluing it in.

15 hours ago, vivat said:

I'm not sure about the pallet fork but it works. When I push the balance wheel it give power to the fork. But it's not running by itself

Hi vivat, maybe we just need to run through it again, what you have done exactly and what the problems  are. Just a side not to your post here, i hope you dont take offence, its the lever( pallet fork )  that ultimately transmits the power from the mainspring to the balance. Its the balance that regulates that power.  As its well known ' knowledge is power '

Edited September 25, 2023 by Neverenoughwatches

[Neverenoughwatches]

17 hours ago, vivat said:

Well i'm sure about the jewel, but this spring makes me sad. Something might be not okey with.

May be everything is because the main plate is from China, but it looks quite ok.

I tried to put balance with 28.800 amplitude it wasn't working 

Are you sure parts are interchangeable between a genuine ETA and a Chinese clone. I would look at this idea again. Parts may look ok and be similar but in reality may not be. What are you meaning by your last statement?. I do think we should start from the beginning fella. 

[vivat]

19 hours ago, mikepilk said:

With no power on the mainspring, give the balance a blast with a puffer and see how long it oscillates - should be o

It's almost not moving 

6 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I thought that as well, but i think he means this disconnection of a pallet slot jewel. Can only guess that the depth is wrong after re gluing it in.

Hi vivat, maybe we just need to run through it again, what you have done exactly and what the problems  are. Just a side not to your post here, i hope you dont take offence, its the lever( pallet fork )  that ultimately transmits the power from the mainspring to the balance. Its the balance that regulates that power.  As its well known ' knowledge is power '

Well. That's my father's watch, it was in the table for 25 years and not long ago (about 6 months ago) i decided to change oil and clear the mechanism. First of all the problem was in the hole for the stem, it was too big, may be because of a lot stem using idk. The stem wasn't locking and always used to fall off. Than I decided to order a main plate from China, because I couldn't find any original and always bying new watches from flea markets is kinda expensive and not safe.

So here we are, now i think I just need to buy a new balance...

 

I'm a noob in watchmaking, i'm working for about 1year and 7months now. This is it, I just don't know how to fix those problems 

[mikepilk]

Is the pivot bent?

3 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Are you sure parts are interchangeable between a genuine ETA and a Chinese clone. I would look at this idea again. Parts may look ok and be similar but in reality may not be.

I'm not sure, but from what I've read, the parts are generally not interchangeable.

29 minutes ago, vivat said:

It's almost not moving 

That's a problem. Remove the pallet and see how freely the balance moves. The balance may have the wrong pivots sizes for the jewel holes, or a bent pivot.

29 minutes ago, vivat said:

Than I decided to order a main plate from China, because I couldn't find any original

Why would you change the main plate? Was there serious damage?

If this watch is of sentimental value to you, I would put it aside and get some practice on cheap movements until you are more skilled.

Edited September 25, 2023 by mikepilk

[Neverenoughwatches]

46 minutes ago, vivat said:

It's almost not moving 

Well. That's my father's watch, it was in the table for 25 years and not long ago (about 6 months ago) i decided to change oil and clear the mechanism. First of all the problem was in the hole for the stem, it was too big, may be because of a lot stem using idk. The stem wasn't locking and always used to fall off. Than I decided to order a main plate from China, because I couldn't find any original and always bying new watches from flea markets is kinda expensive and not safe.

So here we are, now i think I just need to buy a new balance...

 

I'm a noob in watchmaking, i'm working for about 1year and 7months now. This is it, I just don't know how to fix those problems 

Ok so you need to first figure out what the problems really are. Two things to begin with, first establish that you have enough power or at least something getting from the mainspring to the lever ( pallet fork or whatever you want to call it, but the pallet fork is a  component of the lever ) the balance should be removed but the lever left in its  position. Wind some power into the watch, preferably via the stem and then watch the train of wheels especially the escape wheel . Now tell us what what you see.

[vivat]

42 minutes ago, mikepilk said:

Is the pivot bent?

I'm not sure, but from what I've read, the parts are generally not interchangeable.

That's a problem. Remove the pallet and see how freely the balance moves. The balance may have the wrong pivots sizes for the jewel holes, or a bent pivot.

Why would you change the main plate? Was there serious damage?

If this watch is of sentimental value to you, I would put it aside and get some practice on cheap movements until you are more skilled.

I can't really see any damage here

May be you can ?

32 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Ok so you need to first figure out what the problems really are. Two things to begin with, first establish that you have enough power or at least something getting from the mainspring to the lever ( pallet fork or whatever you want to call it, but the pallet fork is a  component of the lever ) the balance should be removed but the lever left in its  position. Wind some power into the watch, preferably via the stem and then watch the train of wheels especially the escape wheel . Now tell us what what you see.

I removed the fork, everything is fine. Everything work pretty good without balance

1 hour ago, mikepilk said:

Is the pivot bent?

I'm not sure, but from what I've read, the parts are generally not interchangeable.

That's a problem. Remove the pallet and see how freely the balance moves. The balance may have the wrong pivots sizes for the jewel holes, or a bent pivot.

Why would you change the main plate? Was there serious damage?

If this watch is of sentimental value to you, I would put it aside and get some practice on cheap movements until you are more skilled.

I changed it because the hole for stem is quite worn out and the stem isn't locking there 

this doesn't look good at all, does it ?)

[Neverenoughwatches]

21 minutes ago, vivat said:

 I removed the fork, everything is fine. Everything work pretty good without balance

So you removed the fork ( lever ) and the balance and wound the watch a little. Everything work pretty good , what did you observe happening with the train, especially the escape wheel ? Did it all unwind smoothly ? Did the escape wheel do anything you thought was unusual ?

[vivat]

5 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

So you removed the fork ( lever ) and the balance and wound the watch a little. Everything work pretty good , what did you observe happening with the train, especially the escape wheel ? Did it all unwind smoothly ? Did the escape wheel do anything you thought was unusual ?

Nothing special, the train and the escape wheel are just moving at the hell high speed and that it's, they are not wobbling or whatever. I think now it's all about the balance 

[Neverenoughwatches]

32 minutes ago, vivat said:

changed it because the hole for stem is quite worn out and the stem isn't locking there 

this doesn't look good at all, does it ?)

Does this mean you took all the parts from a genuine ETA movement and fitted them onto the chinese ETA clone. Everything might be off here. 

[mikepilk]

37 minutes ago, vivat said:

this doesn't look good at all, does it ?)

No it doesn't. The coils should be evenly spaced, not bunched up, and the terminal curve is not between the curb pins (yellow circle)

 

[vivat]

3 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Does this mean you took all the parts from a genuine ETA movement and fitted them onto the chinese ETA clone. Everything might be off here. 

Well there is some sense in your words. Of course I'm not sure in chinese plate. But I literally have no other ideas where to buy it. Anyways almost everything works

[Neverenoughwatches]

13 minutes ago, vivat said:

Nothing special, the train and the escape wheel are just moving at the hell high speed and that it's, they are not wobbling or whatever. I think now it's all about the balance 

Ok thats sound fair, often the escape wheel will do a liitle reverse movement for the last couple of seconds if the train is very free running but not always, it can depend on the depth of the gearing as well. The next step would be to put the fork lever back in, if you have fiddled with the fork stones something might not be set correctly. With the fork in but no balance next put a little wind on the movement and test to see if the fork will snap from one side to the other when you gentle touch each side of it, use a tiny artists paintbrush for safety.  The escape wheel will move along one tooth at a time. If this is all good then the balance can be checked through as you are being shown by Mike.

Edited September 25, 2023 by Neverenoughwatches

[vivat]

6 minutes ago, mikepilk said:

No it doesn't. The coils should be evenly spaced, not bunched up, and the terminal curve is not between the curb pins (yellow circle)

 

My bad I should have noticed that terminal curve is not in place, now i can say that balance is moving for 19 seconds. It lost almost his speed at 8 second of running after a blew there with air

6 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Ok thats sound fair, often the escape wheel will do a liitle reverse movement for the last couple of seconds if the train is very free running but not always, it can depend on the depth of the gearing as well. The next step would be to put the fork lever back in, if you have fiddled with the fork stones something might not be set correctly. With the fork in but no balance next put a little wind on the movement and test to see if the fork will snap from one side to the other when you gentle touch each side of it, use a tiny artists paintbrush for safety. 

Everything is good, the fork is touching the wheel

[Neverenoughwatches]

2 minutes ago, vivat said:

My bad I should have noticed that terminal curve is not in place, now i can say that balance is moving for 19 seconds. It lost almost his speed at 8 second of running after a blew there with air

 

5 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Ok thats sound fair, often the escape wheel will do a liitle reverse movement for the last couple of seconds if the train is very free running but not always, it can depend on the depth of the gearing as well. The next step would be to put the fork lever back in, if you have fiddled with the fork stones something might not be set correctly. With the fork in but no balance next put a little wind on the movement and test to see if the fork will snap from one side to the other when you gentle touch each side of it, use a tiny artists paintbrush for safety.  The escape wheel will move along one tooth at a time. If this is all good then the balance can be checked through as you are being shown by Mike.

Haha poor lad , hes getting it from both sides, me the pallet fork , mike the balance. Feel free to join in Rich , 3 of us can cause even more confusion

5 minutes ago, vivat said:

My bad I should have noticed that terminal curve is not in place, now i can say that balance is moving for 19 seconds. It lost almost his speed at 8 second of running after a blew there with air

Everything is good, the fork is touching the wheel

And its snapping nicely from side to side when you touch it ? You definitely have an issue with the hairspring but its good to check the other side of the escapement as well. We all do things differently,  i consider the train side of the escapement a little easier to check. Mainly as its the start of the assembly and checking as you go. The balance and escape problems can be multiple and a bugger to find if they aren't glaringly obvious. 

[vivat]

3 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

 

Haha poor lad , hes getting it from both sides, me the pallet fork , mike the balance. Feel free to join in Rich , 3 of us can cause even more confusion

Ahhaha really I'm so bored with this watch, this eta 2846 is a piece of scum

Yoy men this sht is moving! I can't believe it. I'll check the accuracy of moving and text back