How do actuall Use these tools (Watch Hand Broaching Holder)?

[Stymied]

[Neverenoughwatches]

33 minutes ago, Stymied said:

I posted up a few other types a couple of hours ago, have a look and give me your thoughts. So unscrew the long handle fully which it isn't in the pic press the button at the bottom which opens up the clamp. Insert a dial hand into the appropriate hole that fits the hand then screw the handle back down to tighten the clamp. Once the hand is secure in the clamp and is centered within a clamp hole you can broach through the clamp to increase the hand hole diameter .

[Stymied]

I have unscrewed the pieces as you described but do not understand what constitutes the "clamp". I saw the tooling on the side and thought that the band between opened, yet if it does I am unable to get them apart. Thoughts?

Update: The plates "popped" apart and there seems to be some sort of mastic that stuck them together. Will assume the same holds for the smaller of the two and soak that and clean it before forcing anything. Many thanks.... much appreciated.....

Edited September 29, 2023 by Stymied

[Neverenoughwatches]

6 minutes ago, Stymied said:

I have unscrewed the pieces as you described but do not understand what constitutes the "clamp". I saw the tooling on the side and thought that the band between opened, yet if it does I am unable to get them apart. Thoughts?

The clamp is the 2 plates. If you unscrew the handle fully, the 2 plates will seperate. 

[JohnR725]

`Don't think of this as a hand holder only. Is used any time you need to  hold anything flat and open up the hole in it.

Then pictures might help complements of the Internet.

But let me read the description first

26 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

So unscrew the long handle fully which it isn't in the pic press the button at the bottom which opens up the clamp. Insert a dial hand into the appropriate hole that fits the hand then screw the handle back down to tighten the clamp. Once the hand is secure in the clamp and is centered within a clamp hole you can broach through the clamp to increase the hand hole diameter .

Yes this is a really interesting description isn't it.  So you unscrew part of it then you squeeze like shown in the image and it opens up. It is a spraying keeping it together. Once you get your item where you'd like it to be then you can tighten it back up and be careful when you're holding it not to break off the hand that sticking out typically

[Neverenoughwatches]

7 minutes ago, Stymied said:

I have unscrewed the pieces as you described but do not understand what constitutes the "clamp". I saw the tooling on the side and thought that the band between opened, yet if it does I am unable to get them apart. Thoughts?

It should look like this with the top handle unscrewed, now press the button at the bottom and the handle, the clamp plates will seperate.

[JohnR725]

Found another picture online you can see the hand in the holder. You'll see the smoothing broach and you can see the protruding hand that I warned you about because of you not careful you end up breaking your hand off..

[RichardHarris123]

13 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

Found another picture online you can see the hand in the holder. You'll see the smoothing broach and you can see the protruding hand that I warned you about because of you not careful you end up breaking your hand off..

Breaking "your hand off" would be really painful.  Hehe. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

6 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Breaking "your hand off" would be really painful.  Hehe. 

This tool is actually my favourite for broaching hands. The spring loaded action of the moving plate means the hand is positioned and quickly held by releasing, if you need to adjust the hand slightly to center it in the broaching hole gentle squeeze the tool together to off the tension slightly. When the hand is lined up where you want it screw the main handle back down to secure it. This tool is a bit less faffy than the old pliers, they run at around a tenner. A good stash of nos or just old hands, a set of smoothing broaches and you are away fixing those missing hand watch. I found as an average being able to increase an hour hand hole by as much as 0.25mm a minute hand by 0.15mm depending on the tube thickness or end plate of the hand. Obviously a blind hole tube requires a different idea.

[rossjackson01]

Just another tool to look at. Until you need to do the job that tool does, then it's not just another tool.

I had to make the hole in a minute hand larger. Only option was the riveting stake block. That was hard work for a beginner. Could have done with the looked at tool. Ah well.

[mikepilk]

3 minutes ago, rossjackson01 said:

Just another tool to look at. Until you need to do the job that tool does, then it's not just another tool.

I had to make the hole in a minute hand larger. Only option was the riveting stake block. That was hard work for a beginner. Could have done with the looked at tool. Ah well.

Ross you can get these from Cousins for just £7 (not one of the usual £££ Bergeon tools )

It's a useful tool - I use it for holding all sorts of small parts 

[Neverenoughwatches]

6 minutes ago, rossjackson01 said:

Just another tool to look at. Until you need to do the job that tool does, then it's not just another tool.

I had to make the hole in a minute hand larger. Only option was the riveting stake block. That was hard work for a beginner. Could have done with the looked at tool. Ah well.

But you managed to do it Ross, that's the point and thats why you are still here buddy because you have initiative and ingenuity. The vice just makes it easier, lots of us here buy nigh on scrappers with hands missing, so its a great little device for helping with that.

7 minutes ago, mikepilk said:

Ross you can get these from Cousins for just £7 (not one of the usual £££ Bergeon tools )

It's a useful tool - I use it for holding all sorts of small parts 

Dont forget Mike Ross has a staking set coming that has wiped his budget out for the next few months . That will help to close the hand holes back up when you've over broached them

[mikepilk]

36 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Dont forget Mike Ross has a staking set coming that has wiped his budget out for the next few months . That will help to close the hand holes back up when you've over broached them

I have some pending expenditure. Just used my jewelling tool to ream a hole and push a jewel in - which shattered. Odd, so I measured the 0.99mm reamer. It's only 0.97mm, which obviously isn't enough. I measured all the other reamers, and they are almost all 0.02 to 0.03mm too small. As they are hardened steel reaming brass, I don't see why they should have worn so much.  I'll just buy one at a time as I need them. Can't find any on AliExpress.

[Neverenoughwatches]

14 minutes ago, mikepilk said:

I have some pending expenditure. Just used my jewelling tool to ream a hole and push a jewel in - which shattered. Odd, so I measured the 0.99mm reamer. It's only 0.97mm, which obviously isn't enough. I measured all the other reamers, and they are almost all 0.02 to 0.03mm too small. As they are hardened steel reaming brass, I don't see why they should have worn so much.  I'll just buy one at a time as I need them. Can't find any on AliExpress.

What J tool do you have ?

[mikepilk]

I didn't know until recently when someone posted this site which lists horological trade marks. https://www.mikrolisk.de/

Turns out the "P" means Henri Picard & Freres.  The standard 2.35mm reamers fit, so I can get them from Cousins

[Neverenoughwatches]

29 minutes ago, mikepilk said:

I didn't know until recently when someone posted this site which lists horological trade marks. https://www.mikrolisk.de/

Turns out the "P" means Henri Picard & Freres.  The standard 2.35mm reamers fit, so I can get them from Cousins

Same size as the Star and seitz reamers, the ones that are undersize are they still sharp? 

[mikepilk]

1 hour ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Same size as the Star and seitz reamers, the ones that are undersize are they still sharp? 

Not very, they look like they've had a useful life.

[Neverenoughwatches]

12 minutes ago, mikepilk said:

Not very, they look like they've had a useful life.

The reduction is probably due to losing that cutting edge. I think most reamers have a relief on the backside of the front cutting edge rotating clockwise . Just wondering if you could add a relief to the opposite edge to get more use from them. I'm fairly sure the only difference between the edges is the back relief. 

[mikepilk]

6 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

The reduction is probably due to losing that cutting edge. I think most reamers have a relief on the backside of the front cutting edge rotating clockwise . Just wondering if you could add a relief to the opposite edge to get more use from them. I'm fairly sure the only difference between the edges is the back relief. 

Sounds a plan, but how would you do it ?

[Neverenoughwatches]

10 minutes ago, mikepilk said:

Sounds a plan, but how would you do it ?

Carefully .  It would have to be ground back. The small ones wouldn't be easy without the right tools, so maybe done by hand under a scope using a small slip stone.

[mikepilk]

The problem is that I need a larger diameter than is there. I suppose you could down-size them. So grind the 1.09mm down to 0.99mm etc.

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, mikepilk said:

The problem is that I need a larger diameter than is there. I suppose you could down-size them. So grind the 1.09mm down to 0.99mm etc.

I dont think that is possible with the equipment we have as there is the taper to take into account. I understand what you are thinking, but i mean cutting in reverse could give you bigger hole. We had a discussion a few months back after someone had made a pivot gauge.  They experienced a wobble of the plate while they were cutting the holes, apparently an effect of the reamer design. Just by having a cutting edge as opposed to a blunt edge could give you that extra 0.02mm. Just a thought

[mikepilk]

1 hour ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

but i mean cutting in reverse could give you bigger hole. 

How? The base of the reamer is the maximum diameter of the hole. If it has worn away I can't see how you can make the diameter larger?

[Neverenoughwatches]

11 minutes ago, mikepilk said:

How? The base of the reamer is the maximum diameter of the hole. If it has worn away I can't see how you can make the diameter larger?

I'm not entirely sure, its a bit hard to explain how the reamers cut and may not apply to end section of the reamer I'll try to find the thread. Somethings are just worth a try.

1 hour ago, mikepilk said:

How? The base of the reamer is the maximum diameter of the hole. If it has worn away I can't see how you can make the diameter larger?

https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/26672-hole-shape-when-using-a-seitz-jewel-setting-tool-reamer/

[mikepilk]

If you have a 0.96mm drill, I don't see how you can cut a 0.99mm hole