Removing engraving.

[Vizard]

 

Good afternoon, All.

I have a watch incoming that I want to refurbish but it has an engraved case back.

What technique would be used to remove it? I am assuming a gold welding technique, given how deep it is. Are we into the realms of specialist help here? If so, can anyone suggest someone good to do it for me in the UK?

I would add that I have, in the past, done some MIG and gas welding and still own a MIG welder and gas torch (sans hoses). So I COULD learn how to do this myself, if anyone has any pointers to a tutorial (I've looked on Youtube).

I also need a dial refurb specialist, if anyone has any suggestions - UK again.

I am aware, incidentally, that removal of engravings divides opinion. But I have decided that it needs to go.

Thank you in advance for any advice.

Edited October 30, 2023 by Vizard
Additions.

[HectorLooi]

I don't think MIG welding is capable of such fine welding work. A micro TIG might be able to pull it off. But I think the best bet would be laser welding. Some specialist goldsmiths might be able to do the job for you.

[nickelsilver]

Agree with Hector, good case refinishers will have a laser welder and they can do what seems like magic things with them. Filling in engraving is a normal thing they do. No idea where one is in U.K. though.

[RichardHarris123]

What is the back made from, the filling would have to match it or  the back re-pated.  

[Vizard]

56 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

What is the back made from, the filling would have to match it or  the back re-pated.  

It's 9k but, as you suggest, unless I can get a match I can imagine ending up with the engraving still visible. Flush, but a different colour.

I was speaking to a nearby jeweller earlier, she said she thinks she can do it. But she has not done it before.

 

[RichardHarris123]

I've never tried it so only a thought.  Could 9k gold be melted, poured into the engraving and then sanded/ polished? 

[Vizard]

18 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

I've never tried it so only a thought.  Could 9k gold be melted, poured into the engraving and then sanded/ polished? 

That's what she was suggesting. But there are different colours of 9k gold and there isn't "a spare bit" of the watch she can use to fill it.

She has just messaged me actually, giving me the details of a specialist place. I have messaged them to see what they are saying.

[RichardHarris123]

If the engraving was filled with 9k gold and then plated with 9k gold to make the colour the same, it would be still 9k gold. 

[Vizard]

29 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

If the engraving was filled with 9k gold and then plated with 9k gold to make the colour the same, it would be still 9k gold. 

That is what she was thinking I believe.

[Marc]

Nekkid Watchmaker did a you tube video in which he had a gold watch back restored. I can't remember if it was engraving that was removed or damage that needed filling but he found a specialist operator in the jewelry quarter in Birmingham who was able to match the colour of the gold perfectly and using a laser welder build the material back up by welding gold wire into the voids and then just polish it back. Completely invisible restoration without any plating. So it is possible. He didn't say what the cost was though.

[Vizard]

24 minutes ago, Marc said:

Nekkid Watchmaker did a you tube video in which he had a gold watch back restored. I can't remember if it was engraving that was removed or damage that needed filling but he found a specialist operator in the jewelry quarter in Birmingham who was able to match the colour of the gold perfectly and using a laser welder build the material back up by welding gold wire into the voids and then just polish it back. Completely invisible restoration without any plating. So it is possible. He didn't say what the cost was though.

I emailed the Nekkid chap a couple of weeks ago, on a similar matter, but I haven't heard back from him.

I am not quite sure who he is. I found a name, which doesn't seem to fit the the voice on the videos.

[Marc]

44 minutes ago, Vizard said:

I found a name

His name is Joe, that's as far as I know.

[rehajm]

1 hour ago, Marc said:

he found a specialist operator in the jewelry quarter in Birmingham

R F Bevan and H S Walsh & sons were the service providers in that video…

[Vizard]

42 minutes ago, rehajm said:

R F Bevan and H S Walsh & sons were the service providers in that video…

RF Bevan might be worth a look.

1 hour ago, Marc said:

His name is Joe, that's as far as I know.

That's the name I have.

His videos sound like an Asian chap though.

[Neverenoughwatches]

10 hours ago, Vizard said:

RF Bevan might be worth a look.

That's the name I have.

His videos sound like an Asian chap though.

The Nekkid watchmaker is Joe Mia, he used to have a shop in oldbury Birmingham, but i think he sold that a little while ago.  He's hard as hell to contact maybe youtube fame has something to do with that but a nice guy if you ever get to speak to him.

[johncon301]

On 10/30/2023 at 2:46 PM, Vizard said:

 

Good afternoon, All.

I have a watch incoming that I want to refurbish but it has an engraved case back.

What technique would be used to remove it? I am assuming a gold welding technique, given how deep it is. Are we into the realms of specialist help here? If so, can anyone suggest someone good to do it for me in the UK?

I would add that I have, in the past, done some MIG and gas welding and still own a MIG welder and gas torch (sans hoses). So I COULD learn how to do this myself, if anyone has any pointers to a tutorial (I've looked on Youtube).

I also need a dial refurb specialist, if anyone has any suggestions - UK again.

I am aware, incidentally, that removal of engravings divides opinion. But I have decided that it needs to go.

Thank you in advance for any advice.

Mig or gas welding will be too much for the case. I do laser welding and can fill in that with matching material. Can be skimmed and polished later.

[spectre6000]

You could do like they did with the post WWII German watches in Eastern Europe, and just scratch the everliving hell out of the back until there's no engraving left.

[Vizard]

On 11/17/2023 at 10:47 AM, johncon301 said:

Mig or gas welding will be too much for the case. I do laser welding and can fill in that with matching material. Can be skimmed and polished later.

Where are you based for future reference?

I got the case back back, after letting a local jeweller loose on it. I wish I hadn't.

She used gold solder to fill it, then tried to put keum boo on top. It didn't work and she re-flowed the solder. In cleaning up she has thinned the case. It still snaps on but it is noticeably thin.

I am not sure whether anything can now be done - perhaps gold solder a disc on the back? I think the price would be uneconomic.

[tomh207]

It maybe salvageable if you can find a jewellery shop/watchmaker who has a proper laser welder. I don’t think anything else would work.

 

Tom

[johncon301]

13 hours ago, Vizard said:

Where are you based for future reference?

I got the case back back, after letting a local jeweller loose on it. I wish I hadn't.

She used gold solder to fill it, then tried to put keum boo on top. It didn't work and she re-flowed the solder. In cleaning up she has thinned the case. It still snaps on but it is noticeably thin.

I am not sure whether anything can now be done - perhaps gold solder a disc on the back? I think the price would be uneconomic.

Hi Vizard

I am in Ireland, We have laser cutters, engravers and welders for all kinds of materials. We tend to concentrate on small component services. I build laser machines for a hobby and working on a small watch makers CNC lathe at the moment. Hopefully will be able to produce the likes of custom watch case backs in the future.  

[Vizard]

The problem with the case back now is that it is very thin  and you can bend it. It still snaps on, but it's lost structural integrity.

[Waggy]

7 hours ago, Vizard said:

The problem with the case back now is that it is very thin  and you can bend it. It still snaps on, but it's lost structural integrity.

I think perhaps it's time to look for a replacement?

[Vizard]

12 hours ago, Waggy said:

I think perhaps it's time to look for a replacement?

Not sure how easy that would be, and if I found one the right size whether it would fit. I can imagine these things are "paired".

Edited December 5, 2023 by Vizard
Clarity

[Waggy]

12 hours ago, Vizard said:

Not sure how easy that would be

I agree, I have an old bumper Omega which turned up without a case back, over 2 years ago... still scanning the ebay for a replacement