First project.

[Vizard]

I bought a little Longines 370 from a dealer, sold as seen. I was expecting it to be running like a bag of spanners. 

Now, confession time, I was originally going to send it to a repairer I know. But some of the work required he cannot do, so I decided that I would consider this my first refurb project. Brave for someone with virtually no tools!

The first challenge I faced (as a newby) was that the strap was very snug and looked like an open-ended / glued one. I thought therefore that the watch would have fixed bars. The strap is new, so I didn't want to trash it.

The next challenge was that the case back has no opening slot. I have never opened a gold watch that did not have one.

Whilst I pondered my next steps I put the watch on the time grapher and was pleasantly surprised. The rate was off, but good amplitude. Too good perhaps?

I gingerly had a look at whether the case would open with a sharper blade, but decided that the case, my fingers or both could end up damaged. To attack the problem with lower risk the strap would need to come off. A concerted effort revealed that actually there were spring bars and off came the strap. It was also possible to get a sharp blade in a tiny gap in the case back and carefully lever against the adjacent lug, removing the back.

The movement was marked "370" but I cannot find the correct lift angle for it. Most other Longines seem to be 50 degrees, so that is what I assume is good for this one.

I adjusted the regulator and have got it sitting on test.

The amplitude seems very high to my (untrained) eye for a watch bought "as seen". I have bought "newly serviced" watches far worse.

So, it looks to me as though the watch doesn't require much in the way of intervention. However I stand to be advised otherwise.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 31, 2023 by Vizard

[RichardHarris123]

One website quote 48 for the lift angle. https://longines30l.com/wordpress/longines-the-movement/lift-angel

[Vizard]

15 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

One website quote 48 for the lift angle. https://longines30l.com/wordpress/longines-the-movement/lift-angel

Thanks, I've changed it. Still giving an amplitude of 320 degrees.

[tomh207]

That amplitude might be a little high but I’m sure I have seen max recommended as 320 degrees for a hand winder. I would run it for a while and see how the timekeeping is in the real world.

 

Tom

[JohnR725]

2 hours ago, Vizard said:

The movement was marked "370" but I cannot find the correct lift angle for it. Most other Longines seem to be 50 degrees, so that is what I assume is good for this one.

you see somebody found you a lift angle. Just a reminder for the future lift angles are only important for timing machines that measure amplitude. Timing machines that measure amplitude have only been in existence for not super long as compared to how long watches have been in existence. So if the watches to old there won't be a lift angle because there were no timing machines

1 hour ago, Vizard said:

amplitude of 320 degrees.

what are you using to measure the amplitude?

[Vizard]

2 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

you see somebody found you a lift angle. Just a reminder for the future lift angles are only important for timing machines that measure amplitude. Timing machines that measure amplitude have only been in existence for not super long as compared to how long watches have been in existence. So if the watches to old there won't be a lift angle because there were no timing machines

what are you using to measure the amplitude?

It's one of the readouts on the Time grapher.

[JohnR725]

3 minutes ago, Vizard said:

It's one of the readouts on the Time grapher

I can see that I hadn't read the entire discussion you have a picture up above excellent. In fact I only read the very beginning of the discussion as you have all the pictures I like to see like pictures of the movement as I like to see what were working on.

 

1 hour ago, Vizard said:

Still giving an amplitude of 320 degrees

now that I looked at the timing machine picture it actually looks really excellent so why exactly service this watch anyway?

Also just to make sure you're doing the procedure correctly you wind the watch up and you let it run at least 15 minutes up to one hour before you time it or put it on the timing machine. Initially especially with a manual wind watch you can wind it up really tight or your risk breaking things but still get tight and you'll have too much amplitude so it needs to settle down a little bit. Also it's really nice for diagnostic silicate dial up dial down and that the minimum crown down just to see how things look.

one of things you want to look at carefully is even though everything looks really good on the timing machine just as a future reference sometimes if the amplitude is super low the Chinese machines will give you a much higher amplitude. But typically was super low amplitude the beat also gets magnified it will look much worse yours looks really good. maybe the watches been serviced within the last few years and is in just fine condition you should build a look and see if there's any signs a lubrication on the balance jewels and the rest of the gear train for everything looks like it's lubricated and providing dial it up and down for timing look similar basically they should look identical. Going the crown positions you lose amplitude but timekeeping should still be there and everything looks winding can see the oil I wouldn't worry about servicing it.

 

[Vizard]

5 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

I can see that I hadn't read the entire discussion you have a picture up above excellent. In fact I only read the very beginning of the discussion as you have all the pictures I like to see like pictures of the movement as I like to see what were working on.

 

now that I looked at the timing machine picture it actually looks really excellent so why exactly service this watch anyway?

Also just to make sure you're doing the procedure correctly you wind the watch up and you let it run at least 15 minutes up to one hour before you time it or put it on the timing machine. Initially especially with a manual wind watch you can wind it up really tight or your risk breaking things but still get tight and you'll have too much amplitude so it needs to settle down a little bit. Also it's really nice for diagnostic silicate dial up dial down and that the minimum crown down just to see how things look.

one of things you want to look at carefully is even though everything looks really good on the timing machine just as a future reference sometimes if the amplitude is super low the Chinese machines will give you a much higher amplitude. But typically was super low amplitude the beat also gets magnified it will look much worse yours looks really good. maybe the watches been serviced within the last few years and is in just fine condition you should build a look and see if there's any signs a lubrication on the balance jewels and the rest of the gear train for everything looks like it's lubricated and providing dial it up and down for timing look similar basically they should look identical. Going the crown positions you lose amplitude but timekeeping should still be there and everything looks winding can see the oil I wouldn't worry about servicing it.

 

I am hopeful that the Wishi-Washi 1000 is pretty accurate - I've timed a lot of watches on it. This Longines looks pretty strong, even when compared to a couple of JLCs that have been serviced by JLC, which hover around 300 and have a higher B/E and positional errors.

No, I am not going to service it. I have some case work I need to get done and I will probably leave it at that.

I'll get something else to mess around with.

[JohnR725]

21 minutes ago, Vizard said:

1000 is pretty accurate

I've done side-by-side comparison of the 1000 and the 1900 with the witschi watch expert two timing machine and the Chinese do a really good job. There are some places like super low amplitude where it will look good on the machine the most part but visually it will look really bad. Then the witschi seems to have no problems with that problem. but I do find that the witschi at work does have problems with super low amplitude fortunately it as our oscilloscope where it tells you what it's triggering off love and you can see what the problem is. But otherwise the Chinese machine seem to do a really good job.

Basically the simple rule is to visually the balance wheel looks like it's moving good that agrees with the numbers and the graphical display looks fine then everything should be fine. Often times people a show us what looks like a snow globe affect and think their numbers are good which they won't be if you can't see a graphical display for instance

then just to get a habit of it I still would look at dial up dial down a crown down is a good diagnostic thing to do. But because your watch looks nice and clean is probably other things that need your attention in this watch can stay the way it is. Especially if you can still see lubrication on the jewels.

Then I was hoping to find timing specifications for your watch lots Swatch group doesn't seem to have timing specifications for everything Omega has timing specifications for most of their stuff and even vintage they lump into a category Rado has timing specifications for their watches but looks like the rest the brands do not have generic timing. What I was looking for was maximum amplitude so in the case of Rado 320 was the maximum but that was only for one particular watch. Look like 315 was the most common maximum with a few being less. But as long as it seems to be stable your fine.

Oh and then technically what Swatch group and the other is Swiss companies like to do is they like to know what the watches doing 24 hours from now so as long as the amplitude is above a certain amount and main thing as long as the watches on time their happy there less concerned with maximum amplitude.