Zenith 3019 minute counter reset

[watchfellow]

Hi everyone,

I was hoping someone might be able to help out with an issue I am having with this Zenith 3019. The minute counter doesn't always want to reset to zero. It either resets to zero or one minute off. When in the reset position, I find that there is enough play on the minute runner that I am able to move it by exactly by one minute, which I don't think should be the case. I've tried cleaning the minute runner and hammer multiple times (even lightly polished the hammer arms) but I am always getting the same amount of play and issue with the return. Is there an adjustment somewhere for this? Or is the issue with either the runner or hammer? Thanks in advance.

I've attached a couple of photos (one with chronograph enagaged and one in the reset position)

 

 

 

Edited December 12, 2023 by watchfellow
Fixed formatting

[JohnR725]

56 minutes ago, watchfellow said:

even lightly polished the hammer arms

You shouldn't have to modify the parts of the chronograph  because now you may possibly have to fix the adjustment that you've made by modifying depending upon where you did it

56 minutes ago, watchfellow said:

Is there an adjustment somewhere for this?

Usually chronographs are filled with adjustments everything is usually adjustable in some way. There will be a lot of screws that are Not really screws but are offset cam is for adjusting things. This is where if you're not familiar with a chronograph you really should have a service manual  which shows all the adjustments.. So I'm attaching a PDF a little light reading..  Then if you do do an adjustment and it doesn't seem to fix the problem put it back where you found it because are probably introduce a new problem..

Zenith_Zenith 3019PHC.pdf

[nevenbekriev]

Manual is good, but one has to know how to read it...

Here, on the picture, I have shown with the big arrow the 'screw' that regulates the reset hammer. The small arrow shows a gap in the hammer that will change when the screw is turned. You have to reduce the gap. Actually, the hammer must be regulated in a manner that the reset surface for the seconds heart will rest firmly on the heart, and the reset surface for the minutes heart will alow a little free play of the heart. This free play should be smaller than half minute to + and - of the arrow on the subdial.

Edited December 12, 2023 by nevenbekriev

[watchfellow]

Thank you Neven, you are brilliant. That was exactly the issue. I tightened the gap on the hammer and this reduced the play. The minute counter now resets properly every time. Thank you so much.

I have another issue with this movement, this time on the date. I find that the date does not snap over instantly as it should. It rolls over slowly, and switches over at different times, like something is obstructing it. It does this with the dial on or off. The quickset works fine, and when using the quickset the date snaps over instantly, it only rolls over slowly when I am moving the hands manually.

I am attaching a photo of the movement as it looks when the hands are at midnight and the date change is engaged. I'm not sure if the issue is with the date jumper or the date indicator assembly (or something else). I had a spare date indicator assembly and tried replacing it, but that did not solve the issue.

[nevenbekriev]

Marry Christmas,

Good to know that the reset problem is solved.

To say something for the date change, will need to see the back side of the day wheel (with the arrow), and the lever with the arrow when the wheel is not in the movement

[nevenbekriev]

Oops, i forgot the picture...

[watchfellow]

Merry Christmas Neven. Really appreciate the help again. Attached are a photo of the date wheel and release lever (up and down) as well as another of the movement without these parts attached.

 

Edited December 28, 2023 by watchfellow

[CYCLOPS]

make sure the quick-set wheel is not engaged during date wheel movement....

[nickelsilver]

You need to grease the lever under the date wheel, where the finger rides on it, also its pivot point and where its screw touches it. Heavy oil like HP1300 on the date wheel and finger. Grease where the spring touches the lever. The spring is a weak point; they are often broken (yours looks OK), but they have just enough oomph to kick the date over. So lubrication is important. Also the date jumper needs proper lubrication on its pivot points including the shouldered screw that holds the little plate on- and the plate, and where its spring rides, and a little smear of grease on the faces that touch the date ring.

 

The quick set wheel is clutched so as long as it's free (and lubricated) it shouldn't be an issue. If you are in setting trying to advance the date with the dial off, the hour wheel tends to ride up releasing the built up energy in the lever, you might have to hold it in place gently with a piece of pegwood.

 

 

[nevenbekriev]

When assembling the parts, leave the spring for last and before insertinf ti, check wether the wheel and the finger that change the date move free. It is possible that tightening the screw to much has deformed the post in the plate and now the bearing is tight. if this is the case, the problem may be the post has bekome shorter OR thicker, so different ways for solution would be used

[watchfellow]

Thank you everyone for your advice and help. I cleaned and lubricated all parts of the date mechanism again. I appreciate the detailed instruction Nickel, I found it really useful as I did miss some points of lubrication the first time around.

I still found the date to be sticky when manually rolling it over, but when i loosened the screw for the finger, the date snapped over as intended. So I think you are correct in your assessment Neven, the post is probably the issue. 

[nevenbekriev]

16 hours ago, watchfellow said:

... but when i loosened the screw for the finger, the date snapped over as intended. So I think you are correct in your assessment Neven, the post is probably the issue. 

Then the best solution is screw head to be turned on lathe in order to ensure some free play of the finger when the screw is tightened

[watchfellow]

Thanks Neven. I finally got the date working correctly. But I seem to be facing one problem after another with this one.

I now see that sometimes the watch stops right when the minute counter is supposed to turn over. I am assuming that the spacing with the minute corner wheel should be adjusted? Not sure how to go about doing that.

 

[nevenbekriev]

Well, this is not another problem, but still chronograf part needs to be regulated as it should.

The engagement depth of finger that switches the minute counter must be regulater as deep as possible (but still one position ahead per finger turn). The excentric that regulates the depth is here.

But, as Henty Mencken once said, “For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and ... wrong.”, the things are more complex and complicated. Did You already try to regulate the depth and if so, what hapened?

[nickelsilver]

It could be the penetration of the of the sliding gear to the finger. But first off check that the minute counter is totally free, and its jumper is working correctly. It should advance the wheel but not with too much tension on its spring. Later models have the spring integral with the jumper and if not messed with give little trouble; on yours the spring is on the escape cock, and could easily be overtensioned.

 

With those things sorted, then check the depth as Neven mentioned (the eccentric is actually the one just to the right of his arrow). You want the sliding gear wheel to engage with the finger, as deeply as possible, with the limit being that the finger can touch the next tooth after the jump, but not enough to make the minute counter move (just brush by it). If the engagement is too light the finger can butt on a tooth, stopping the watch.

Edited February 6, 2024 by nickelsilver

[nevenbekriev]

17 minutes ago, nickelsilver said:

 (the eccentric is actually the one just to the right of his arrow).

Correct, I have to use my eyeglasses...