Balance staff: is this a decent quality?

[Kalanag]

I‘m going to replace the balance staff of a Russian pocket watch (Molnia 3602). Because it is the first time I purchase a balance staff as a spare part I am not sure about the finishing quality to be expected. Here are some pictures from what I got (ebay, „NOS“). Is this a decent quality for such an item or is it chunk? Your educated comments are highly appreciated.

 

Edited December 14, 2023 by Kalanag

[oldhippy]

That is rough. Someone has with out taking care knocked that out of an old movement. Don't buy that one. 

[Kalanag]

Thank you @oldhippy. I did not see any evidence that this staff has run before.

[nevenbekriev]

This one has never been riveted and used, but the spare parts latest production in post USSR Russia was on lo level of quality. You can burnish the pivots a little after riveting the staff and that's all.

[Neverenoughwatches]

2 hours ago, Kalanag said:

I‘m going to replace the balance staff of a Russian pocket watch (Molnia 3602). Because it is the first time I purchase a balance staff as a spare part I am not sure about the finishing quality to be expected. Here are some pictures from what I got (ebay, „NOS“). Is this a decent quality for such an item or is it chunk? Your educated comments are highly appreciated.

 

The hub looks a bit rough and the pivot doesn't seem particularly polished but that might just be because the photographer seems to have taken the picture with a potato .  . The rivet still looks like it has its shape though.

[oldhippy]

Russian watch movements/parts in the 70'S & 80'S were not good, they were as rough as a Badgers Ass

[Kalanag]

In the early 90s these Russian pocket watches were sold on markets in Berlin for DM10,- (€5,-) brand new…

[Nucejoe]

Its a poor quality, but as Neven said , polish the pivots, thats all it needs. 

Rgds

[AlexeiJ1]

8 hours ago, oldhippy said:

Russian watch movements/parts in the 70'S & 80'S were not good, they were as rough as a Badgers Ass

I love your example  

Old Hippy glad your still around the forum's Ive been following your posts since Mark Lovicks first videos. 

[oldhippy]

Thanks. Happy Christmas to you and all your family. 

[CYCLOPS]

you should be able to use after clean-up in lathe as long as the hub fits the balance wheel.....

[Kalanag]

On 12/16/2023 at 5:02 PM, CYCLOPS said:

you should be able to use after clean-up in lathe as long as the hub fits the balance wheel.....

Meanwhile I found some time to investigate the dimensions of the new staff.

- The pivots fit the jewel holes

- The end shake is fine

- The wheel hub fits the wheel diameter

BUT

- The double roller ID is 0,2mm smaller than the staff‘s OD (0,4 vs. 0,6mm) 

Not having a lathe, what would you folks do?

Edited January 22, 2024 by Kalanag

[Neverenoughwatches]

10 minutes ago, Kalanag said:

Meanwhile I found some time to investigate the dimensions of the new staff.

- The pivots fit the jewel holes

- The end shake is fine

- The wheel hub fits the wheel diameter

BUT

- The double roller ID is 0,2mm smaller than the staff‘s OD (0,4 vs. 0,6mm) 

Not having a lathe, what would you folks do?

Jacot ?

[Kalanag]

I should have mentioned that I don‘t have a Jacot tool.

[nevenbekriev]

Well, use reamer to enlarge the hole of the roller

[Neverenoughwatches]

5 hours ago, Kalanag said:

I should have mentioned that I don‘t have a Jacot tool.

Ronda catalog is showing the roller table diameter on staff as 56 maybe roller is too small . Could you measure on a reamer where you need to be with the size ? Stop short and finish with  a smoothing broach.  Reducing the staff would feel safer for me and normally easier to replace if things go wrong . 

[Kalanag]

Well, there seems to be no other option than purchasing a reamer that I will never need again. I‘m not happy with this idea (yet).

Can a cutting broach do the job?

[tomh207]

3 minutes ago, Kalanag said:

Well, there seems to be no other option than purchasing a reamer that I will never need again. I‘m not happy with this idea (yet).

Can a cutting broach do the job?

Well I’ll throw tuppence in the pot, the knowledgeable folks will hopefully chime in. A cutting broach is basically a reamer with a taper, I would think this would be what you would want for this but I may be wrong. A reamer is parallel and would be more for making a true hole. Saying that I think there are also tapered reamers kicking about for things like morse tapers.

 

Tom

[nevenbekriev]

5 minutes ago, Kalanag said:

Can a cutting broach do the job?

Yes, of course. And You can make one from sewing needle on bench grinder. The roller is made of brass and is easy to cut

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, Kalanag said:

Well, there seems to be no other option than purchasing a reamer that I will never need again. I‘m not happy with this idea (yet).

Can a cutting broach do the job?

I think that is what nev was meaning, reamer just being another term. I wouldn't be too happy either. 

[nevenbekriev]

Yes, my english doesn't make difference between reamer and cutting broach. I try to improve it here...

[Neverenoughwatches]

2 hours ago, Kalanag said:

Well, there seems to be no other option than purchasing a reamer that I will never need again. I‘m not happy with this idea (yet).

Can a cutting broach do the job?

Do you have smoothing broaches that you can mark up the diameter on, so you have a gauge to work to. I do this when opening up a barrel hole so i know when to stop.

4 minutes ago, nevenbekriev said:

Yes, my english doesn't make difference between reamer and cutting broach. I try to improve it here...

Its ok nev those 2 terms are more or less interchangeable where ever you come from.  Reamers are often associated with their use in jewelling tools but some people also do call them broaches . Broaching and reaming mean the same, to open up a hole. Broaching a subject would be to open up a discussion usually a difficult one.

[Kalanag]

Thank you guys! I will make up a sewing needle or smoothing broach and widen the roller hole with this cutting tool.

Edited January 23, 2024 by Kalanag

[CYCLOPS]

the roller or staff needs to have some taper to fit tight, you will use tapered reamers again and again in the future I'm sure, I don't know how you will hold the roller to do this maybe a pinvise.....be careful not to remove too much and hopefully the hole will not get out of round

[Kalanag]

Got this set of carb jet broaches (0,4 - 1,6mm) for just €9,- (shipping included). They worked well for the cutting. After finishing with a smoothing broach the result is fine 

Edited January 24, 2024 by Kalanag