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Balance staff: is this a decent quality?

Kalanag
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Kalanag Super WRT Addict

Kalanag

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Posted (edited)

I‘m going to replace the balance staff of a Russian pocket watch (Molnia 3602). Because it is the first time I purchase a balance staff as a spare part I am not sure about the finishing quality to be expected. Here are some pictures from what I got (ebay, „NOS“). Is this a decent quality for such an item or is it chunk? Your educated comments are highly appreciated.

IMG_8382.jpeg.d4c511f608ce17f8767d40b7de3fabdb.jpeg

IMG_8378.jpeg.0b5ffe5d375e9f2544671e99abfa8d95.jpeg

 

Edited by Kalanag
  • Kalanag changed the title to Balance staff: is this a decent quality?
nevenbekriev Distinguished Member

nevenbekriev

Posted
Posted

This one has never been riveted and used, but the spare parts latest production in post USSR Russia was on lo level of quality. You can burnish the pivots a little after riveting the staff and that's all.

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Neverenoughwatches Distinguished Member

Neverenoughwatches

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Kalanag said:

I‘m going to replace the balance staff of a Russian pocket watch (Molnia 3602). Because it is the first time I purchase a balance staff as a spare part I am not sure about the finishing quality to be expected. Here are some pictures from what I got (ebay, „NOS“). Is this a decent quality for such an item or is it chunk? Your educated comments are highly appreciated.

IMG_8382.jpeg.d4c511f608ce17f8767d40b7de3fabdb.jpeg

IMG_8378.jpeg.0b5ffe5d375e9f2544671e99abfa8d95.jpeg

 

The hub looks a bit rough and the pivot doesn't seem particularly polished but that might just be because the photographer seems to have taken the picture with a potato 🥔.  😉 . The rivet still looks like it has its shape though.

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AlexeiJ1 WRT Addict

AlexeiJ1

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, oldhippy said:

Russian watch movements/parts in the 70'S & 80'S were not good, they were as rough as a Badgers Ass

I love your example 😄 

Old Hippy glad your still around the forum's 🙂 Ive been following your posts since Mark Lovicks first videos. 

  • 1 month later...
Kalanag Super WRT Addict

Kalanag

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Posted (edited)
On 12/16/2023 at 5:02 PM, CYCLOPS said:

you should be able to use after clean-up in lathe as long as the hub fits the balance wheel.....

Meanwhile I found some time to investigate the dimensions of the new staff.

- The pivots fit the jewel holes

- The end shake is fine

- The wheel hub fits the wheel diameter

BUT

- The double roller ID is 0,2mm smaller than the staff‘s OD (0,4 vs. 0,6mm) 🤨

Not having a lathe, what would you folks do?

Edited by Kalanag
Neverenoughwatches Distinguished Member

Neverenoughwatches

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Kalanag said:

Meanwhile I found some time to investigate the dimensions of the new staff.

- The pivots fit the jewel holes

- The end shake is fine

- The wheel hub fits the wheel diameter

BUT

- The double roller ID is 0,2mm smaller than the staff‘s OD (0,4 vs. 0,6mm) 🤨

Not having a lathe, what would you folks do?

Jacot ?

Neverenoughwatches Distinguished Member

Neverenoughwatches

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Kalanag said:

I should have mentioned that I don‘t have a Jacot tool.

Ronda catalog is showing the roller table diameter on staff as 56 maybe roller is too small . Could you measure on a reamer where you need to be with the size ? Stop short and finish with  a smoothing broach.  Reducing the staff would feel safer for me and normally easier to replace if things go wrong . 

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Kalanag Super WRT Addict

Kalanag

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Well, there seems to be no other option than purchasing a reamer that I will never need again. I‘m not happy with this idea (yet).

Can a cutting broach do the job?

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tomh207 Distinguished Member

tomh207

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Kalanag said:

Well, there seems to be no other option than purchasing a reamer that I will never need again. I‘m not happy with this idea (yet).

Can a cutting broach do the job?

Well I’ll throw tuppence in the pot, the knowledgeable folks will hopefully chime in. A cutting broach is basically a reamer with a taper, I would think this would be what you would want for this but I may be wrong. A reamer is parallel and would be more for making a true hole. Saying that I think there are also tapered reamers kicking about for things like morse tapers.

 

Tom

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nevenbekriev Distinguished Member

nevenbekriev

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Kalanag said:

Can a cutting broach do the job?

Yes, of course. And You can make one from sewing needle on bench grinder. The roller is made of brass and is easy to cut

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Neverenoughwatches Distinguished Member

Neverenoughwatches

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Kalanag said:

Well, there seems to be no other option than purchasing a reamer that I will never need again. I‘m not happy with this idea (yet).

Can a cutting broach do the job?

I think that is what nev was meaning, reamer just being another term. I wouldn't be too happy either. 

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Neverenoughwatches Distinguished Member

Neverenoughwatches

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Kalanag said:

Well, there seems to be no other option than purchasing a reamer that I will never need again. I‘m not happy with this idea (yet).

Can a cutting broach do the job?

Do you have smoothing broaches that you can mark up the diameter on, so you have a gauge to work to. I do this when opening up a barrel hole so i know when to stop.

4 minutes ago, nevenbekriev said:

Yes, my english doesn't make difference between reamer and cutting broach. I try to improve it here...

Its ok nev those 2 terms are more or less interchangeable where ever you come from.  Reamers are often associated with their use in jewelling tools but some people also do call them broaches . Broaching and reaming mean the same, to open up a hole. Broaching a subject would be to open up a discussion usually a difficult one.

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Kalanag Super WRT Addict

Kalanag

Posted
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Posted (edited)

Thank you guys! I will make up a sewing needle or smoothing broach and widen the roller hole with this cutting tool.

Edited by Kalanag
CYCLOPS WRT Addict

CYCLOPS

Posted
Posted

the roller or staff needs to have some taper to fit tight, you will use tapered reamers again and again in the future I'm sure, I don't know how you will hold the roller to do this maybe a pinvise.....be careful not to remove too much and hopefully the hole will not get out of round

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Kalanag Super WRT Addict

Kalanag

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

Got this set of carb jet broaches (0,4 - 1,6mm) for just €9,- (shipping included). They worked well for the cutting. After finishing with a smoothing broach the result is fine 🙂

IMG_8721.thumb.jpeg.1eb1eca383c4b786ee810ff3b226bf09.jpeg

Edited by Kalanag
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