Cylinder movement identification

[nevenbekriev]

Good work!

But You shoud put in place down side tampon before fitting the one that was out and repaired. It could be done easier thru the hole of the cylinder untill it was open. Now You will have to do it the little harder way.

OK, use anvil with hole that will accept the size of the narrow part of the tampon (shown with arrows), but will not let go thru the wider part. Then, put office knife blade (the back, not the sharpened part) in the cut part of the cylinder, on top of the tampon, and press the tampon with force by pressing on the knife blade thru balance spokes, as close to the tampon as possible. The wider part of the tampon must be on the same hight as the downside end of the cylinder tube.

!!!  Now that I have written all this, will say that it is absolutelly possible that the cylinder has been replaced and with not correct one, and the position oft the downside tampon may has been changed this way on purpose, to adjust the mouth hight position. So, pease, before shifting the tampon, check if the hight of the mouth when balance in place is correct to the teeth and if the balance rim does not rub on the escape wheel cock. !!!

Edited December 29, 2023 by nevenbekriev

[Neverenoughwatches]

40 minutes ago, nevenbekriev said:

But You shoud put in place down side tampon before fitting the one that was out and repaired. It could be done easier thru the hole of the cylinder untill it was open. Now You will have to do it the little harder way.

Ah thats true, i can tap it further out the same way i removed the broken one with the offset stake, it was quite easy.

[Neverenoughwatches]

Hi Nev. I respect both your's and John's knowledge and always appreciate any help that either of you give me. Thank you so much for your help with this, I've learnt much. You were right about pushing out the top plug to a better position first before inserting the bottom plug, it's access looked impossible. The cylinder's total length was too short to reach both jewels, so i did indeed remove the bottom plug again in order to reposition the top one. Sadly when trying to tap the top plug further out the cylinder snapped in half. Such a weak escapement design, a blessing that there are better ones. The movement is shelved for the time until an appropriate replacement turns up, its definitely not something i can make. Thank you again and it did give me an excuse to start more lathework

[KarlvonKoln]

@Neverenoughwatches -  I FOUND IT!!! - Sorry if I'm late to this one, but I finally located the business site which has complete cylinders in different sizes, from common pocket watch sizes on up.  I have worked on cylinder escapements, often enough that I bought the special Bergeon punches and staking anvil.  But I hadn't worked on one in a few months and I thought I'd bookmarked the site.  Well, NOW I have.  This is where:

https://watchparts24.com/Cylinder-wrist-watch-21560

That said, if you have a lathe and are handy with it, you can turn a tampon.  

Funny story: first time I tried turning one, I got most of the way done, then accidentally jabbed myself with the graver...
and I got blood on my tampon.  
Guys don't usually have that problem, I hear.  

[nevenbekriev]

Hi Rich, what happened? Do You have the movement working yet?

[Neverenoughwatches]

9 hours ago, KarlvonKoln said:

@Neverenoughwatches -  I FOUND IT!!! - Sorry if I'm late to this one, but I finally located the business site which has complete cylinders in different sizes, from common pocket watch sizes on up.  I have worked on cylinder escapements, often enough that I bought the special Bergeon punches and staking anvil.  But I hadn't worked on one in a few months and I thought I'd bookmarked the site.  Well, NOW I have.  This is where:

https://watchparts24.com/Cylinder-wrist-watch-21560

That said, if you have a lathe and are handy with it, you can turn a tampon.  

Funny story: first time I tried turning one, I got most of the way done, then accidentally jabbed myself with the graver...
and I got blood on my tampon.  
Guys don't usually have that problem, I hear.  

Thanks karl, ill take a lool at that supplier.

4 hours ago, nevenbekriev said:

Hi Rich, what happened? Do You have the movement working yet?

Hi Nev, no the cylinder snapped in half when i tried to push the other plug further out. I didn't have the cylinder supported well enough, i need to find a replacement hollow cylinder. Wondering if i could use a solid cylinder and cut the mouth to fit the escape wheel.

Edited January 15, 2024 by Neverenoughwatches

[nevenbekriev]

OK, this is cheap movement and pritty small. No worth making cylinder for it. Making a cylinder is possible and even normal routine task, but when the movement is valuable. It is beter to start practicing it with cylinder for carriage clock, which are much bigger than this one. There are different ways for making cylinder described in books, i have my own way too. Will expain when needed.

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, nevenbekriev said:

OK, this is cheap movement and pritty small. No worth making cylinder for it. Making a cylinder is possible and even normal routine task, but when the movement is valuable. It is beter to start practicing it with cylinder for carriage clock, which are much bigger than this one. There are different ways for making cylinder described in books, i have my own way too. Will expain when needed.

Thanks nev, i appreciate the reply, no the movement is worth nothing and i paid nothing for it. Out of my depth but it was something i wanted to try and would have enjoyed making and seeing it work again, nothing ventured nothing gained. I dont particularly want to spend too much time on it, it will sit until i have an opportunity to go back to . Lots more to keep me occupied so i can step back again to a more comfortable level for a while. I appreciate your help with it and i did learn from it and you.

[watchweasol]

Hi @nevenbekriev  Iam sure there are members who would appreciate your methods of how to produce a cylinder for a clock or watch as its not a common skill required these days unless by enthusiasts.  thanks.

[nevenbekriev]

I can find only some pictures of one of my first attempts to make cylinder.

[url=http://postimg.cc/image/6xyi2rvir/][img]http://s29.postimg.cc/6xyi2rvir/20151205_105105.jpg[/img][/url] [url=http://postimg.cc/image/avh6efsyb/][img]http://s29.postimg.cc/avh6efsyb/20151205_105942.jpg[/img][/url] [url=http://postimg.cc/image/oqfgwwndf/][img]http://s29.postimg.cc/oqfgwwndf/20151205_135337.jpg[/img][/url] [url=http://postimg.cc/image/60nhg5umr/][img]http://s29.postimg.cc/60nhg5umr/20160306_162909.jpg[/img][/url] [url=http://postimg.cc/image/wkg2iav6b/][img]http://s29.postimg.cc/wkg2iav6b/20160307_100644.jpg[/img][/url] [url=http://postimg.cc/image/6jx636bf7/][img]http://s29.postimg.cc/6jx636bf7/20160307_101608.jpg[/img][/url] [url=http://postimg.cc/image/j67l00dw3/][img]http://s29.postimg.cc/j67l00dw3/20160307_101611.jpg[/img][/url] [url=http://postimg.cc/image/i57cavwwj/][img]http://s29.postimg.cc/i57cavwwj/20160307_103321.jpg[/img][/url] [url=http://postimg.cc/image/t62hfwp5f/][img]http://s29.postimg.cc/t62hfwp5f/20160307_104059.jpg[/img][/url] [url=http://postimg.cc/image/ak4bff1w3/][img]http://s29.postimg.cc/ak4bff1w3/20160307_104630.jpg[/img][/url] [url=http://postimg.cc/image/g70ocw4er/][img]http://s29.postimg.cc/g70ocw4er/20160307_105211.jpg[/img][/url] [url=http://postimg.cc/image/41bh2hpoz/][img]http://s29.postimg.cc/41bh2hpoz/20160307_110258.jpg[/img][/url] [url=http://postimg.cc/image/ryojnoz0z/][img]http://s29.postimg.cc/ryojnoz0z/20160307_111814.jpg[/img][/url]

 

[AMEDIA]https://youtu.be/W4uGP_Fi9X0[/AMEDIA]

As You see, it is made of syringe neede. That was my vision at that time... Later I began making cylinders from blied steel. Next time i have to do one will try to make photos or video, but it is time consuming thing, and I only have my phone camera.

Sorry, this way of embeding pictures seems to not work. They still can be seen, but URL must be copied and pasted in browser search. Will try to repair it later, have to go to work now.

[nevenbekriev]

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, nevenbekriev said:

 

Thats some pretty clever work nev. It amazes me how little amount of tools you use and their basic design. George Daniels used the term " cork and nail work " he heard that from one of his mentors David Torrens. It basically means a high level of skill attained to enable just the use of the simplest of tools yet still produce perfect work. Negates the need for an all singing all dancing workshop. 

[watchweasol]

Hi Neve,  comendable work. Ingenious use of a hypo needle, getting then the right size be a pest though.  Cutting thr gap for the horn on the escape wheel would need some accuracy, what do you use to cut it . Diamond file .

[nevenbekriev]

Thanks for the good words,

Yes, the mouth of the cylindre is shaped with files by hand, the needle is not hard material. Now I use tungsten carbide flying cutters and make cylindres of blued steel.The needle sizes as I remember are with step 0.1mm, so there is 0.8, but no 0.85.

4 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Thats some pretty clever work nev. It amazes me how little amount of tools you use and their basic design. George Daniels used the term " cork and nail work " he heard that from one of his mentors David Torrens. It basically means a high level of skill attained to enable just the use of the simplest of tools yet still produce perfect work. Negates the need for an all singing all dancing workshop. 

Thanks Rich,

Who needs workshop full of complicated expencive machines and devices, if the work actually needs only simpe tools and decisions? I guess You have seen all my equipment and it is all I need to make pracically all watch parts when needed.

[Neverenoughwatches]

31 minutes ago, nevenbekriev said:

Thanks for the good words,

Yes, the mouth of the cylindre is shaped with files by hand, the needle is not hard material. Now I use tungsten carbide flying cutters and make cylindres of blued steel.The needle sizes as I remember are with step 0.1mm, so there is 0.8, but no 0.85.

Thanks Rich,

Who needs workshop full of complicated expencive machines and devices, if the work actually needs only simpe tools and decisions? I guess You have seen all my equipment and it is all I need to make pracically all watch parts when needed.

Haha careful Nev you are climbing my hero status list

[Neverenoughwatches]

10 hours ago, nevenbekriev said:

 

You're doing this work in a powered watchmaker's turns tool Nev.  so the white nylon pulley, you turn the steel to be used down for a tight fit in the pulley the opposite end has the pivot supported by a turns runner  ?

Edited January 17, 2024 by Neverenoughwatches

[nevenbekriev]

Hi Rich, I clame to use ancient techniques, but, as a modern man, I use electricity. I never tried to learn using bow to power the turns... The nylon pullley - it has been long time ago (2015, when I se the names of the picture files), but probably I have made the pulley to fit the needle, or have used pulley that have made before for something else, with proper size. Such puleys I make for different small electric motors that I use for powering the turns, or my milling attachments for the lathe.

I am not sure if I get the question for the pivot supporting, but it is center of this kind,

that is used to turn a pivot when You have the stock with cone shaped tip only

 

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

11 hours ago, nevenbekriev said:

Hi Rich, I clame to use ancient techniques, but, as a modern man, I use electricity. I never tried to learn using bow to power the turns... The nylon pullley - it has been long time ago (2015, when I se the names of the picture files), but probably I have made the pulley to fit the needle, or have used pulley that have made before for something else, with proper size. Such puleys I make for different small electric motors that I use for powering the turns, or my milling attachments for the lathe.

I am not sure if I get the question for the pivot supporting, but it is center of this kind,

that is used to turn a pivot when You have the stock with cone shaped tip only

 

 

Yes that was the question, maybe i should aquire a set of watchmaker's turns.