Smiths 8 day K6A 541 clock problems

[Garnet]

Blwyddyn Newydd Dda,

I have been asked to look at a Smiths 8 day K6A 541 clock which has an out of sequence chime and other problems. I know a bit about watch movements but clocks are new to me so I am a novice in this regard so would be grateful for any assistance, guidance or suggestions of where to find a manual etc.

OK so the issues I see are as follows:

1. Chimes are out of sequence and appear to keep losing sequence (I think, unless its something I am introducing).

2. Chimes seem to only partially complete with other sections of the chimes completing on later quarters.

3. It is not a bad time keeper but needs correcting say 2 to 3 minutes every 24 hours or so. (I figure this is the pendulum screw needs adjusting and possibly a little oil here and there?)

4. There are three winding holes on the front. I Guess the middle is the actual clock and the other two are chimes and strike but which is which?  The two chimes/strike winders seem to have very little movement or are stiff, is this normal?

Thank you in advance.

I can also be emailed directly at *****@*****.tld if anyone has copies of manuals etc.

[Willow]

Welcome to the forum, you could do with stripping down and cleaning it checking the pivots ect, but if you have not worked on clocks then this not the best one to try, is this the type of movement you have?

[oldhippy]

What you described about the chime side being temperamental it sounds to me as if the movement need a good clean and possibly re-bushing, the spring on the chime side is very strong so it must be something very wrong. Willow has given you his comments and I totally agree.  This movement should put its self right when it comes to chiming so it automatically coincides with the hands. If you have never worked on a chime you need to take plenty of photos paying notice to the wheels on the chime and strike side note where everything is with the wheels that have pins in them and look on the front plate at all the levers and works. We can always help you putting it all back, myself I have repaired so many I have lost count.

Now the bad news you are going to need a clock mainspring winder to remove the springs not only to be able to clean the barrels and springs but you will be able to check the ends of the springs which attach to the in sides of the barrels. 

Windles clock oil is what you need it is not expensive for this type of clock even the mainsprings. 

[Garnet]

Gentlemen,

Thank you so much for the assistance with this it is much appreciated. My first problem is someone worked on this before me and I have no way of knowing what they may or may not have done.

I think taking on board what you have both said, my knowledge of watches (Not clocks but some elements are the same) and a natural instinct for avoiding things I am not sure about until I know more; I will take it from it's housing, check basic things you mention, a spot of watch oil here and there and I will set it up and see if there is any improvement. If not I will return it to it's owner and suggest a professional clock repairer which I will research beforehand.

Regards

Garnet

[oldhippy]

Don't use watch oil it is too thin. Use the clock oil I suggested.  

[transporter]

Well done in knowing your limits, trust me a Westminster is not the best movement to start out in in the foray of clock repair. Trust me I know ( luckily I had my mentor sat next to me ).

As OH says windles is good and cheap, I do find personally that D4 sits better but that’s personal choice and taught, but windles I still use, and windles turret clock oil for mainspring pivot holes.

[watchweasol]

Hi @Willow which book did you get the pictures from looks interesting. Could you post the title please.

[Willow]

Hi watchweasol, sorry late in replying, the book is called Clockmaking in England and Wales in the Twentieth Century, by John Glanville and William M. Wolmuth, and yes it is a very interesting book

[Garnet]

Gents,

Thank you for all the advice and help. I pretty much got the chiming and striking in sync following the instructions given at Smiths mantle clock project - Page 2 - All Things Clocks - Watch Repair Talk thanks mainly to Old Hippy (Ae are not worthy :-)).

I've had the movement out a couple of times and can see the tell tail signs of mangled screw heads and scratched plates from screwdriver slips from previous , dare I say work.  Despite this, the movement looks in pretty good shape but quite likely needs a proper expert service and maybe re-bushing etc. The gearing seemed to have a fair bit of play in them; but maybe my experience with watch movements is making me paranoid and it's to be expected.

Anyway, I am going to write up a list of what I have done and seen and the advice I have been given, locate a good clock repairer in our area and return the clock with the recommendation the actual hire someone who knows what they are doing to restore it as any attempt I make would be just that, an attempt and probably do more harm than good.

So not defeated but wise I will leave it there and thanks for your input.

Garnet

Edited January 9, 2024 by Garnet

[oldhippy]

If I were you who ever you pick to service the clock make sure they do the repairs on their promises, only these days many farm repairs out and you will not know where its at, who repaired it, make sure they guarantee their work and for how long it should be at least a year and how long it will take. Good luck.  

 

 

[Garnet]

Thank you, I am thinking to recommend Services - Timsbury Clocks.

[oldhippy]

You will be well looked after with them. They are members of the B H I just be careful they are expensive so get an estimate.  

[watchweasol]

Hi @Willow thanks for the title I will look it up.