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Finished my first ever service and got my dads non running Tissot working. One final question on adjustments.

JeremyLaurenson
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JeremyLaurenson Member

JeremyLaurenson

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Posted (edited)

I'd like to thank all of you for your advice and help in getting it up and running!

Full story here:

https://wordpress.com/post/jeremylaurenson.wordpress.com/2182

I do have one final question - it's running about 30s fast per day and I have the adjustment screw all the way... I assume fixing this thing is a case of trying to manually lengthen the hairspring which is not something I think i want to mess with 😃 (I did demagnetize the movement)

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Edited by JeremyLaurenson
Adding timegrapher data
  • Like 1
Marc Distinguished Member

Marc

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Posted

A picture of the top of the balance cock and regulator may help here. The reason being that you have both coarse and fine regulation options available. The fine tuning is done using the eccentric (looks like a screw) with the graduations around it, the coarse adjustment using the regulator arm its self. I would normally set the fine adjustment to the middle of its range, get the rate as close as possible to 0s/d with the coarse adjustment, and then go back to the fine tuning to get it spot on.

You may already be at the limit on the coarse adjustment which would be an issue, but if not then you should still have some range left to take out that 30s/d. A pic would help to determine where you are.

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JeremyLaurenson Member

JeremyLaurenson

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Ah, of course! What N00b.

So, I have my rate generally +3 -2s per day, but the beat error is now around 1.1

No way to get beat error down without going out of range on the timing.

 

So what exactly is the downside of beat error?

Neverenoughwatches Distinguished Member

Neverenoughwatches

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, JeremyLaurenson said:

Ah, of course! What N00b.

So, I have my rate generally +3 -2s per day, but the beat error is now around 1.1

No way to get beat error down without going out of range on the timing.

 

So what exactly is the downside of beat error?

1.1 beat error is acceptable. 

nevenbekriev Distinguished Member

nevenbekriev

Posted
Posted (edited)

Hi Jeremy,

There is a reason for increasing of beat error when moving regulator to '-' and the reason is that the hairspring is not correctly centered, and it is getting the more eccentric the closer the regulator goes to '-'. I used Your picture to show where is the point to manipulate the end curve, and the direction, in order to bring the hairspring correctly centered. Actually, 1.1 mS is not such a big problem, and if You don't fill confident to mess with hairspring, then leave itimg_1070.thumb.gif.03719eda303d4e9a24e6d2023abf9fa1.gif as it is.

Edited by nevenbekriev
Endeavor Distinguished Member

Endeavor

Posted
Posted
On 1/7/2024 at 8:52 PM, JeremyLaurenson said:

So, I have my rate generally +3 -2s per day, but the beat error is now around 1.1

It's good, leave it as it is.

If you are not experienced, there is a chance that you may screw up for a very, very, very (did I mention VERY) minimal gain. The watch doesn't care if it runs a BE of 1.1 or 0.8 or 0.0ms and in real life you will never notice the difference in timekeeping.

  • Like 1
JohnR725 Distinguished Member

JohnR725

Posted
Posted

One of the more common problems with regulators like this is they are stacked on top of each other. In other words the regulator is stacked on top of the beat adjustment and on some watches where they have fine adjustments that stacked on top.

For instance for the parts list we can see the regulator and the stadt  holder are physically separate

image.png.aab6d78f9382fa30b2e5c538caef40b1.png

Let us look at a different watch because we have a much nicer picture of what the problem can be. In this particular watch the regulator arm is separate from the regulator itself allowing you to move the regulator for a course adjustment and then the arm for the fine adjustment. Then a course of the stud holder is separate. Ideally moving the regulators shouldn't move the stud but typically because they're layered together move one you move the other one. So any time he of floating regulator instead you do have to sometimes play with them move the regulator move the stud regulator stud back and forth until you get everything perfect because they may all moved together

but the timekeeping is fine and 1.1 ms is great anything under 2 ms would typically be fine.

image.png.ed4a2f2df08b25b7456a733df284cb19.png

 

  • 2 weeks later...
Burruz Member

Burruz

Posted
Posted
On 1/7/2024 at 2:55 PM, Marc said:

A picture of the top of the balance cock and regulator may help here. The reason being that you have both coarse and fine regulation options available. The fine tuning is done using the eccentric (looks like a screw) with the graduations around it, the coarse adjustment using the regulator arm its self. I would normally set the fine adjustment to the middle of its range, get the rate as close as possible to 0s/d with the coarse adjustment, and then go back to the fine tuning to get it spot on.

You may already be at the limit on the coarse adjustment which would be an issue, but if not then you should still have some range left to take out that 30s/d. A pic would help to determine where you are.

Hi. Why would moving the spring stud change the timekeeping? I would have thought it would adjust the beat error as it is effectively moving the whole balance assembly between the balance pins but I cannot understand how it would adjust the running rate. Please excuse my ignorance, I am keen but green!

tomh207 Distinguished Member

tomh207

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, Burruz said:

Hi. Why would moving the spring stud change the timekeeping? I would have thought it would adjust the beat error as it is effectively moving the whole balance assembly between the balance pins but I cannot understand how it would adjust the running rate. Please excuse my ignorance, I am keen but green!

It does adjust the beat error however they are co-dependant. If you move the orientation of the stud then the regulator will be in a different position. The converse can happen too if there is friction between the stud mechanism and the regulator mechanism, I have done a few where I have had to figure out a way to keep the stud mechanism in the same place to adjust the regulator.

 

Tom

  • Like 2
JohnR725 Distinguished Member

JohnR725

Posted
Posted
On 1/24/2024 at 7:18 AM, tomh207 said:

It does adjust the beat error however they are co-dependant. If you move the orientation of the stud then the regulator will be in a different position. The converse can happen too if there is friction between the stud mechanism and the regulator mechanism, I have done a few where I have had to figure out a way to keep the stud mechanism in the same place to adjust the regulator.

something that seemed like such a brilliant idea to allow everything to be adjustable and unfortunately all get adjusted at the same time sometimes. So basically can be a big pain to adjust because you have to move one then move the other one back and basically continuously going back and forth until everything is in the right place if you're lucky.

 

  • Like 1
Burruz Member

Burruz

Posted
Posted
On 1/24/2024 at 3:18 PM, tomh207 said:

It does adjust the beat error however they are co-dependant. If you move the orientation of the stud then the regulator will be in a different position. The converse can happen too if there is friction between the stud mechanism and the regulator mechanism, I have done a few where I have had to figure out a way to keep the stud mechanism in the same place to adjust the regulator.

 

Tom

Ahh of course. Thanks a lot I will watch out for that.

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