Jump to content

7S26 balance spring, what's up with it

lexacat
 Share

Recommended Posts

lexacat WRT Addict

lexacat

Posted
Posted

Working on a 7S26 for a mate, I've got a new balance in the mail because I'm not super confident I can fix this, but I'd still like to try.

image.png.437bb105d85db4df9c2d4c4f09449e23.png

It looks like the spring is pretty mangled to the right of the regulator pin, so I'm wondering if it might have been originally clamped in the pin there, and it's just slipped back a bit? Should I attempt to insert it more into the regulator, or should I leave it where it is and try and reshape it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
HectorLooi Distinguished Member

HectorLooi

Posted
Posted

You definitely need to reshape the endcurve and put the hairspring in the slot of the regulator. The regulator stud can be rotated to align the slot with the hairspring.

Seiko uses a system similar to Etachron. To remove the hairspring stud, you can use a fine tip tweezer to carefully wedge the stud out of the clip.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Neverenoughwatches Distinguished Member

Neverenoughwatches

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, lexacat said:

Working on a 7S26 for a mate, I've got a new balance in the mail because I'm not super confident I can fix this, but I'd still like to try.

image.png.437bb105d85db4df9c2d4c4f09449e23.png

It looks like the spring is pretty mangled to the right of the regulator pin, so I'm wondering if it might have been originally clamped in the pin there, and it's just slipped back a bit? Should I attempt to insert it more into the regulator, or should I leave it where it is and try and reshape it?

Hi lex, some centering of those coils needs to take place. First make sure that the hairspring is thoughly clean and nothing sticky remains, magnetism shouldn't be an issue as modern ( last 70 years bright nickle alloys ) hairsprings are non magnetic. Next check its freedom between the regulator pins, which at the moment doesn't look like it is, seems to be nipped, notice the gap between the end curve and the.1st coil is wider on both sides of the regulator. Once free turn the stud for some concentric adjument of the coils, if that looks ok then the regulator pins can be closed up and checked for hairspring freedom all along the terminal curve. Maybe some reshaping of it like Hector suggests as the curve looks a bit raggy.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
nevenbekriev Distinguished Member

nevenbekriev

Posted
Posted (edited)

Yes, reshaping of the end curve is definitelly needed. This can be done without taking out hte stud from the holder at all.

The spring is not clamped in the stud, it is glued with heat melting glue and it is not protrding from the other side like in old watches that have 'reserve'. So it is as it should be there.

Edited by nevenbekriev
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Waggy Distinguished Member

Waggy

Posted
Posted

@lexacat reshaping hairsprings is more of an art than a science, sometimes you take a spring and make a minor tweak and everything miraculously falls into place (those are the good days), other times you can be 99% done and make a final micro adjustment and it ends up worse than you started. But practice and experience will get you there in the end, you can go from this:

0121.thumb.JPG.7ed6461bf5a1eaf883a016603438a0e0.JPG0122.thumb.JPG.728184d5b3b2422a7049d441ecb9e9b5.JPG

 

To this:

0126.thumb.JPG.b66f5170961295eb56dacffe6151c5a6.JPG

Only general advice I can give is to look for the problem area (eg where the coils are touching) and then look 90 degrees away for the cause and make your adjustment, when making an adjustment hold the coil with a fine set of tweezers (No 5) and then stroke the spring on whichever side of the held section works with another set of closed No 5's or thin tool (eg oiler) to make the adjustment - repeat as necessary, if you try make an actual bend you will inevitably overdo it and start the downward spiral of fixing the fix, then having to fix that fix......take regular breaks to avoid frustration and re-fucus your concentration.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JohnR725 Distinguished Member

JohnR725

Posted
Posted
On 1/29/2024 at 7:27 PM, lexacat said:

mangled

I think mangled is a bit of a harsh word here. let's interesting in the world of horology the battle of Japanese watch manufacturing with the Swiss is that sometimes they share things like the system here of the regulation on the stud commonly called a Etachron system the Swiss hold the patent for one part and the Japanese hold the patents for the other part.

I'm attaching an image so you have a better idea of how things look. For now what I would do is just open the regulator up to its maximum and just move it out of the way see you can see if they hairspring got bent there. you and up with way more adjustments which of course will cause way more confusion when you're trying to figure out what you're trying to do here. 

 

 

image.png.06c75573e1b15435a7d93f2c15dc35d7.png

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • 4 weeks later...
lexacat WRT Addict

lexacat

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Hey guys, thanks for all the great info! I've been snowed under with work but hoping to have a crack at this when I get a spare second. I've got a new balance to pop on this if I screw things up, but hopefully I can get it looking good again 😃

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
 Share
Go to topic listing


  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • ChrisInOz
      No images showing

      By ChrisInOz · Posted

      The post below contains the link. If you don't already have a discord account it will take you to the registration screen.  Registration is free.   https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/31653-mark/?do=findComment&comment=279066
    • luiazazrambo
      WWW Eterna sucked me in.

      By luiazazrambo · Posted

      HWGIKE#57 Valex FEF 190 15 jewels Swiss lever full service and repair This one was waiting for a balance staff replacement in my cabinet parts and case cleaned up with a new balance staff and a 4th wheel as the original 4th wheel had a broken pivot for the off center second hand. I never attempted a balance staff replacement before however I received a Bergeon Molfres (i was hunting it for about 2 years) and with the help of it I managed to remove the old staff and riveted the new one in. It also received a new MS, crystal and the hole for the MS arbor was also tightened. With the new MS now it has an acceptable performance meaning that the amplitude goes up to 280 fully wound, has an acceptable beat error and I have the two nice lines but only dial up, dial down is not as nice and I could not figure out as why. I have the two lines but the amplitude is dropping to around 230 and the lines are a bit hairy. Both dial up and dial down the lines just go up and down without seemingly any pattern. I cleaned the movement two times, and then a 3rd time pegged out the main plate and train bridge holes but made no change. Both the HS collet and the roller table was too lose on the new staff... I did not count how many times I took the balance cock off to sort out the HS collet, the roller table and the beat error, somebody before me also shortened the HS by pushing it out a bit and it seems every time somebody is messing with the end of the HS the protruding bit is most of the time twisted bent etc. This one was probably one of the most challenging repair and service. I might take the new MS out and clean it lubricate it as I just pushed the new one in to the barrel from the retaining ring. Plus started to re-read the theory of the escapement and how to analyse the graph on the timing machine: Greiner Chronografic Record manual. I am also thinking to put the watch on a 24 hour long run with the eTimer SW it once helped me to figure out what was wrong with a watch. There is an interesting part of the Greiner record manual talking about the pallets and the end shake of the balance and pallet staff. Maybe this is my issue? Who could that possibly identify? After a few years now I am still without a clue how could watchmakers make parts I can only see with my microscope or how could/can they carry out complicated services impossible to do.. real magic..... .... ..... before I sent this post while the pics were uploading I had an idea, i was browsing the possible outcomes on the timing machine I had one for magnetism..... so I demagnetized the movement and it is not hairy now.... two really nice lines 0.2 ms beat error still a bit wavy, but a lot lot better..... argh....  
    • Nucejoe
      Hello from Cypress, CA

      By Nucejoe · Posted

      Hi there, welcome here.  
    • JohnR725
      No images showing

      By JohnR725 · Posted

      yes the advertising revenue should generate money. The question is how much money? Then as far as the cost of the website goes that's relatively easy to determine? all you would have to do to grasp costs and profitability would be to go to the link below and you can actually get a website for free try it out for free I believe you get no advertising initially. They also talk about that they'll help you out they have marketing tools and some sort of paid subscription or something. So I guess were shopping for a whatever just ask them what would a maybe could use this one as an example in other words it's going to look basically identical to this is going to have advertising a paid subscriptions what's it going to cost? After all they want to sell or give us a message board like this they should bill answer the questions as they're the people who did the software for this. Yes they really said you can have a free discussion group at least to start. https://invisioncommunity.com/ I was curious about the monthly supporter thing where exactly do we find that on this message board? A quick search I'm not finding it so obviously I'm not looking in the right place?
    • Curare
      No images showing

      By Curare · Posted

      Help me out here, but with all the advertising on this site (which I don't mind) wouldn't it pay for itself or even make money for the owner ???
×
×
  • Create New...