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How to remove the balance spring

rph952
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Neverenoughwatches Distinguished Member

Neverenoughwatches

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9 hours ago, rph952 said:

Can someone tell me how to remove this balance spring from the cock? It's wedged into the bottom of the circular metal tab marked in the photo. I know some springs can be loosened with a screw, but not this one. Thanks.

balance spring top red.jpg

Some studs are fixed to the arm, i had one a while back and did have to unpin the hairspring. 

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rehajm Super WRT Addict

rehajm

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The cheap Smiths and the Baumgartners in the Mickey Mouse watches have a similar design. Are you just getting to the jewel for service? I was propping up the edge beyond the stud with a V groove stump and a press on the stud with a flat punch. It felt too risky so I just secured the balance wheel best I could with the underside of the cock exposed and unscrewed. Easier and safer I thought…

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rph952 Watch Enthusiast

rph952

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5 hours ago, rehajm said:

The cheap Smiths and the Baumgartners in the Mickey Mouse watches have a similar design. Are you just getting to the jewel for service? I was propping up the edge beyond the stud with a V groove stump and a press on the stud with a flat punch. It felt too risky so I just secured the balance wheel best I could with the underside of the cock exposed and unscrewed. Easier and safer I thought…

Thanks for your thoughts. I'm trying to fix the spring, so I must release it. The spring is off to one side.

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Nucejoe Distinguished Member

Nucejoe

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Posted (edited)

 Hairspring pin can be pulled out with a percision long nose pliers. 

Used carefully cheap pliers last long, heres

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001972446614.html

Repinning the spring back is a bit challanging as you ought aim for the stud hole.

No more than Pulling the pin out with stud left in the cock is needed, preferably cock with balance attached  back on mainplate.

Good luck

Edited by Nucejoe
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rph952 Watch Enthusiast

rph952

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OK, I removed the hairspring pin by putting back the cock bridge and then tapping gently with a hammer and pin driver (for watch bracelet). Here's what I have. It looks like concentric circles except for the last section. I've watched quite a few videos on shaping the spring. Even though it's a cheap movement (but Swiss made) it looks like the spring metal is better than the blue steel.

balance spring unhooked.jpg

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Nucejoe Distinguished Member

Nucejoe

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 Apparently it didn't even need to be detached from the cock, as the coil looks undamaged, but the terminal curve should be shaped parralel to other circles such that you end up with a concentric coil when terminal curve passes through the regulator slot. Final adjustments are done when all is installed back on mainplate . 

Its likely to be out of beat when installed, which requires turning the coil a few degrees, you'd be shooting for zero beat error , not an easy task.

I wouldn't touch the impulse pin, turn the coil instead.

Good luck.

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Nucejoe Distinguished Member

Nucejoe

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 You have the balance and cock detached now, lay the cock upside down on bench to measure the distance from hole in the setting and regulator slot, a rough guess would do as well , as the bend can be manipulated when balance complete is installed  on mainplate. 

 It be nice if you can find an image of balance complete for the same caliber as a model  to copy,   a bend near the stud might be neccessary for final adjustment to the coil.

Good luck

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Klassiker Distinguished Member

Klassiker

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Put the stud back on the cock.

1. Is the hairspring flat?

2. Does the terminal curve make an arc with same radius as the regulating pins?

3. Does the collet lie directly above the pivot jewel?

Adjust accordingly.

It looks like you originally had the two bends to make the start of the terminal curve, but now you've removed the second one.

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nevenbekriev Distinguished Member

nevenbekriev

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The first action needed is this:

1a.jpg.5bd58100379eaa85173c5ca196eb2fb1.jpg

Here the small circles show where to grasp with tweezers and arrow shows where to push with something, e.g. needle or another tweezers, the aim is to increase the radius and bring the studd some little away from the sping body.

The next step is this:2a.jpg.e1ead368ccfec658d32d05dff2077db9.jpg

The aim is to bring the outer coil closer to the spring body. It actually has to go paralel to the body and to keep distance about 2X the distance between the other coils inside the body. Try to do this as acurate as possible by bending in the manner with tweezer and needle.

Next step is to bring the outer coil in one plain with the spring body.

3a.jpg.15fe6497720a54fb4d86996560a5efa7.jpg

 

Here You must grasp with two tweezers and twist the portion between tweezers in manner that hte outer coil will get in the plain of the body. I am not sure about the points where the grasp mus be, as I don't have picture from aside, but hope I am close and You will get the idea.

The next step is to put the studd in place in the hole of the cock.

originalmainspring.thumb.jpg.e7a0fddd496ed21c033e5570fedfe264.jpg.e95b67d9d207b6f72981be4758f044c0.jpg

The studd must be oriented as per the line shown.

The cock is upside down, hairspring up. Then, grasp with tweezers close to the studd and pish and twist  as needed in order to bring the spring in place and paralel to the plane of the cock.

Show the result at that point.

Edited by nevenbekriev
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rph952 Watch Enthusiast

rph952

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18 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

 You have the balance and cock detached now, lay the cock upside down on bench to measure the distance from hole in the setting and regulator slot, a rough guess would do as well , as the bend can be manipulated when balance complete is installed  on mainplate. 

 It be nice if you can find an image of balance complete for the same caliber as a model  to copy,   a bend near the stud might be neccessary for final adjustment to the coil.

Good luck

I measured every which way. Not sure exactly what was asked for.

cockmeasure.jpg

17 hours ago, Klassiker said:

Put the stud back on the cock.

1. Is the hairspring flat?

2. Does the terminal curve make an arc with same radius as the regulating pins?

3. Does the collet lie directly above the pivot jewel?

Adjust accordingly.

It looks like you originally had the two bends to make the start of the terminal curve, but now you've removed the second one.

The spring is tilted, in addition to going wide.

spring loose.jpg

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Neverenoughwatches Distinguished Member

Neverenoughwatches

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36 minutes ago, rph952 said:

I measured every which way. Not sure exactly what was asked for.

cockmeasure.jpg

The spring is tilted, in addition to going wide.

spring loose.jpg

The last outer coil is the one that fits between the regulator pins not the second coil in. The stud also needs to be turned anti cw and the spring straightened out from there. I'm beginning to think that the spring is too long and should be repinned, or the bend at the terminal curve be removed and  completely restarted

Edited by Neverenoughwatches
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Nucejoe Distinguished Member

Nucejoe

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4 hours ago, rph952 said:

I measured every which way. Not sure exactly what was asked for.

cockmeasure.jpg

The spring is tilted, in addition to going wide.

You have shown it to be  3.3mm , thats where( called regulator arm slot )  the outer most circle ( the terminal curve ) should pass through. 

Lucky the coil looks flat, adjustment for levelness is most likely needed near the collet, sort out the terminal curve and relevent area first.

Good luck

 

Edited by Nucejoe
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Klassiker Distinguished Member

Klassiker

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6 hours ago, rph952 said:

The spring is tilted, in addition to going wide

@nevenbekriev has already identified the obvious faults that I can see at this stage. He's also given you some good advice on how to correct them. Of course, knowing what to do and actually having the hand / eye coordination, technique and tools to do it are two very different things. It takes a lot of practice to do well, and most of us ruined hairsprings in the beginning. Everyone has to start somewhere though, so as long as this isn't a valuable piece to you, go ahead.

You will need some very sharp-pointed tweezers, a fine needle or oiler, a hard clean surface, good magnification, good lighting and lots of time and patience.

Go slowly. It's better to make five tiny adjustments in the right direction than overshooting back and forth. Whenever you are not sure what to do next, come back for advice.

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rph952 Watch Enthusiast

rph952

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I hope this is close enough. And given my lack of experience, it's as good as I can get it. It's a $5 Waldan watch, so no worries.  To me it looks ok, although there's a small kink at the outer coil. The coil is flat. It was pointed out the spring might be too long. It could be, but I think it's original. Thanks for all your help! Now I have to reassemble the balance. I got some advice on how to orient the stud. I know how to guide the spring around the regulator pin and shut it. I'm not sure about the alignment between pins. I don't have a jewel, but I think this is what they're talking about (circled in red) in photo.

spring fixed.jpg

posts.jpg

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