AS 554 from 1930

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, Razz said:

Actually kind of rough, maybe munute wheel pinion problems? Is the 2.73mm canion oinion which seems rarer and not availble on Cousins UK. The seconds hand works and suprising nice amplitude but don't know the lift angle and BE this one says 17 j but is a pin pallet as well. Cap jewels on the escape and drive train pivots. Interestingly in has both water proof and shock resistant on the caseback and dial. Puts this around 1969 or '70?

The double bezel that works independently is cool has the pi symbol on each. Wonder if it can be used like a slide rule ir something...

Nice interesting diver Razz, i have a sheffield dress watch, different movement altogether. Could be a wrong motion works part, how does the setting feel before fitting the cannon pinion, clutch and intermediate wheel meshing ok ?  The less traditional setting design could be suspect, the second wheel has a slip clutch assembly, that most likely needs looking at.

2 hours ago, Razz said:

Actually kind of rough, maybe munute wheel pinion problems? Is the 2.73mm canion oinion which seems rarer and not availble on Cousins UK. The seconds hand works and suprising nice amplitude but don't know the lift angle and BE this one says 17 j but is a pin pallet as well. Cap jewels on the escape and drive train pivots. Interestingly in has both water proof and shock resistant on the caseback and dial. Puts this around 1969 or '70?

The double bezel that works independently is cool has the pi symbol on each. Wonder if it can be used like a slide rule ir something...

LA is 42 ° Razz

17 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

The pallet fork should really be called a lever, English lever, Swiss lever etc but most people including myself call it a pallet fork.

Tbh i  much prefer to call the complete unit the lever, then use the seperate names for all of its components. Such as guard pin, fork, fork horns, fork slot, lever arm, pallets , pallet arms, pallet slot, pallet stones. I suppose pallet fork is the combination of the two opposite ends that make up the lever, its also called the anchor which is descriptive of its appearance. 

40 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

I'm not sure what kind of movement this is, but I'm curious to know if you're using the word "lever" as a synonym for "pallet fork"?

Its a pretty basic 1930s  swiss lever movement H and yes Nev was meaning the pallet fork.

[RichardHarris123]

30 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

i  much prefer to call the complete unit the lever

I agree, I call it a pallet fork for two reasons, it was the name used when I started watch repair both in written documents and on videos and calling it a lever causes confusion as seen. 

Plenty of other examples where there's more than one name. What do you call the opposite side of the movement from the dial side?  I've heard you call it the watch makers side. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

I agree, I call it a pallet fork for two reasons, it was the name used when I started watch repair both in written documents and on videos and calling it a lever causes confusion as seen. 

Plenty of other examples where there's more than one name. What do you call the opposite side of the movement from the dial side?  I've heard you call it the watch makers side. 

My overall preference is to use traditional names and terms, that became my habit when i was taught joinery by old boy chippies 2 generations older than me , that had their time in the 40's. But what i often do is adjust the names and terms i use according to who I'm talking with. Sometimes i will say trainside and occasionally watchmaker's side. I try to find a balance between accommodating other folk ( there's no point speaking a foreign language to someone who doesn't understand it ) and using a name that appears to me to be more relevant as to its use or description. But using the name lever can be quite confusing,  some watches might have parts that are also levers, release levers, which in effect is what the pallet fork is, an escapement release lever. 

[VWatchie]

27 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

I've heard you call it the watch makers side.

I've also heard it called the "top side" and the dial side the "bottom side", which should make any non-repairer very confused.

There are many examples and sometimes it comes down to personal preference. Personally, I like to say "dial train" whereas most other people would use the term "motion works".

[tomh207]

I think this is pretty typical when you have something that crosses many regional and international borders. @Neverenoughwatches yes Rich, that is the common way, learning from our teachers, however terms used in Yorkshire could easily be a lot different for tools, techniques or methods different from Scotland or Somerset. My (long winded) point is it all depends on where you first picked up the terms, if from books American watch terminology differs from English terminology and to a degree Swiss terminology. That also seems to extend to watchmaking schools. Confusing at first starting out but like anything else you get used to it. This will be why our long term members attach a glossary to new users introducing themselves as beginning their journey. 
 

Tom

[Neverenoughwatches]

17 minutes ago, tomh207 said:

I think this is pretty typical when you have something that crosses many regional and international borders. @Neverenoughwatches yes Rich, that is the common way, learning from our teachers, however terms used in Yorkshire could easily be a lot different for tools, techniques or methods different from Scotland or Somerset. My (long winded) point is it all depends on where you first picked up the terms, if from books American watch terminology differs from English terminology and to a degree Swiss terminology. That also seems to extend to watchmaking schools. Confusing at first starting out but like anything else you get used to it. This will be why our long term members attach a glossary to new users introducing themselves as beginning their journey. 
 

Tom

You definitely pick up different names from different people of all ages from everywhere. Like learning different dialects of the same language. Its all part of the learning curve of any trade. 

1 hour ago, VWatchie said:

I've also heard it called the "top side" and the dial side the "bottom side", which should make any non-repairer very confused.

There are many examples and sometimes it comes down to personal preference. Personally, I like to say "dial train" whereas most other people would use the term "motion works".

Both those two terms describe to me perfectly that they are one and the same. After a couple of years of knowledge you can figure out what is being talked about. There are times that i get caught out with something i haven't encountered before. 

[Razz]

Pin pallet fork as opposed to jewelled pallet fork is what I meant. Both are lever pallet forks as OH stated, no? 

[RichardHarris123]

13 minutes ago, Razz said:

Pin pallet fork as opposed to jewelled pallet fork is what I meant. Both are lever pallet forks as OH stated, no? 

Yes both are levers.

[nevenbekriev]

6 hours ago, RichardHarris123 said:

The pallet fork should really be called a lever, English lever, Swiss lever etc but most people including myself call it a pallet fork.

Yes, this is what I exactly ment to write in answer.

[Neverenoughwatches]

Finally got around to having a dry run with the original roller that came with the watch and what should be a genuine nos staff that does match the movement caliber specified as an AS 554.  No go at all , the bottom of the big table sits directly on top of the fork. So it seems the complete balance assembly has been modified to fit a staff that was made to fit inbetween the plate and cock. Unless I've gone wrong somewhere and identified the movement wrong and the staff should be a different one. Problem is the original staff broke in two and is very poorly made making it difficult to measure.  Looks like this will have to be shelved until another 554 comes  my way, or if anyone has one and can verify the staff measurements for me. Now i think about it I do have the stem, i could use that it check the caliber

[Razz]

On 5/17/2024 at 10:08 PM, Razz said:

Actually kind of rough, maybe munute wheel pinion problems? Is the 2.73mm canion oinion which seems rarer and not availble on Cousins UK. The seconds hand works and suprising nice amplitude but don't know the lift angle and BE this one says 17 j but is a pin pallet as well. Cap jewels on the escape and drive train pivots. Interestingly in has both water proof and shock resistant on the caseback and dial. Puts this around 1969 or '70?

The double bezel that works independently is cool has the pi symbol on each. Wonder if it can be used like a slide rule ir something...

Update on this. Actually found a tech sheet on a different thread and found the 2.71 is on the 8805 and cousins had it! So ordered it and hopefully by Monday will be keeping time again.

[Razz]

On 5/18/2024 at 12:32 AM, Neverenoughwatches said:

Nice interesting diver Razz, i have a sheffield dress watch, different movement altogether. Could be a wrong motion works part, how does the setting feel before fitting the cannon pinion, clutch and intermediate wheel meshing ok ?  The less traditional setting design could be suspect, the second wheel has a slip clutch assembly, that most likely needs looking at.

LA is 42 ° Razz

This is it! I was. Reassembling to the point  getting the watch ready for the new Canon pinion and had work with the old cannon pinion enough to know that it should at least move the minute hand some if not normally, but nothing. Looked at the second wheel and the parts list and it looks like the second wheel (part 203.5) has a winding wheel attached, which my on my movement was in two pieces but wondered if it should be pressed fit so it did not just spin. I used my staking set to try to get the parts back together. Not sure if they are supposed to be tight fitted but they are now! In my rush to put the watch back together I broke the top pivot on the pallet fork (finger is what the sheet says part 800). So now have to order a new one of those...another week for that to arrive now. I downloaded this from another thread so thanks to whomever that was (sorry I can't remember).

2849_EB 8800etc (3).pdf