I regret getting my auto oiler. A better way to oil shock settings.

[Birbdad]

If this has been discussed elsewhere feel free to delete. So for things like the train bridge shock settings in 7XXX series seiko movements it's impossible to set them wet and have a good oil bubble. You gotta set them dry and oil from the other side. When i started out i was told you basically have to have an auto oiler for this. I got one, i hate it, it works, sometimes, but it does a terrible job at metering the oil flow and there's about a 20% chance it will overfill it instantly causing me to have to reclean the jewel and try again. 

On top of that, for things like the 3rd wheel in the 7s26 it according to most SHOULD be oiled with hp1300 even though the tech sheets for the various versions of the 7s26 are all over the place on this. Some iirc recommend 9010 in the shock setting and 1300 in the lower jewel. One says 9010 on both. One wants you to use grease on the bottom jewel, it's strange.. So unless you want to get two auto oilers for the two shock settings and fill one with hp1300, what do you do? 

Well just save yourself 100 bucks on a pretty crappy tool imo there's a much simpler way to do it. Just take your dip oiler, put a bead of oil on the back of the setting once the shock setting has been set already, then take your wheel and poke the pivot through the jewel hole and capillary action will draw in the oil and do it slowly and precise enough you get that perfect bubble every time. I don't know if this insanely easy technique is used a lot here but nobody suggested it to me when i was starting out and i blew about 120 bucks on a tool i now realize i just don't need.

Just a little psa for people that aren't aware of this insanely simple technique that requires no tools.

Edited February 14, 2024 by Birbdad

[Waggy]

I said much the same thing a few days ago... great minds .... 

 

[Birbdad]

7 minutes ago, Waggy said:

I said much the same thing a few days ago... great minds .... 

 

Try my pivot technique it works so much better than an auto oiler!
Also one thing a few watchmakers iv'e seen do is they get a black or red bergeon oiler and just sharpen it down to a super thin spike and use that for poking oil into those shock settings. 

Edited February 14, 2024 by Birbdad

[rossjackson01]

28 minutes ago, Birbdad said:

 I don't know if this insanely easy technique is used a lot here but nobody suggested it to me when i was starting out and i blew about 120 bucks on a tool i now realize i just don't need.

Just a little psa for people that aren't aware of this insanely simple technique that requires no tools.

Have to agree with you. There is a YouTuber who uses that technique for the chatone. Places the jewel on top, inverts and places into the setting. Oil bubble looks correct every time. I use is for myself now as it is easier than getting a 'ping' now and again.  

I had thought about an auto oiler. But finances dictate not. Thank you for the update. 

[Birbdad]

38 minutes ago, rossjackson01 said:

Have to agree with you. There is a YouTuber who uses that technique for the chatone. Places the jewel on top, inverts and places into the setting. Oil bubble looks correct every time. I use is for myself now as it is easier than getting a 'ping' now and again.  

I had thought about an auto oiler. But finances dictate not. Thank you for the update. 

Don't bother. 

For the balance jewels's chatones i just do the classic method of using my dip oiler and then placing the chatone on top. 

[rehajm]

I don’t disagree with analysis and don’t recommend them either but I have them and I will use them because I have trouble pulling the right amount from the oil cup for settings that are exceptionally large or small. Also, with a regular oiler I seem to have issue with jagged bubbles when epilame is involved. 

…the flow of oil per pump can be finely regulated. The instructions what come with are standard Bergeon confusing. 

The auto also have a problem with capillary flow of oil from the tank on to the pin so I have to check under magnification every time…

[rossjackson01]

This is why I like this forum. Members have different views and offer them freely without rancour. There are many variations on a theme. If it works , then it's correct for that person. Another may adapt partially or not at all.

Professional or hobbyist, all give recommendations. We watch, listen, use, pass on observations. Guidance is offered from experience and not to deride. 

I look at many things in a totally different light than one, two years ago. I do things in a totally different way. Great place to learn this.

[Burruz]

11 hours ago, rossjackson01 said:

This is why I like this forum. Members have different views and offer them freely without rancour. There are many variations on a theme. If it works , then it's correct for that person. Another may adapt partially or not at all.

Professional or hobbyist, all give recommendations. We watch, listen, use, pass on observations. Guidance is offered from experience and not to deride. 

I look at many things in a totally different light than one, two years ago. I do things in a totally different way. Great place to learn this.

Totally agree Ross. 
I am a noob that has become addicted to reading this forum and fascinated by how many different ways to get the job done. 
I can only thank you and all the other guys for helping me learn this wonderful hobby in such a friendly open forum. 
Thanks all!

[rossjackson01]

3 minutes ago, Burruz said:

Totally agree Ross. 
I am a noob that has become addicted to reading this forum and fascinated by how many different ways to get the job done. 
I can only thank you and all the other guys for helping me learn this wonderful hobby in such a friendly open forum. 
Thanks all!

Yup. Good innit?

Even though I have problems, the members take the time to assist. They are good.

Edited February 14, 2024 by rossjackson01

[spectre6000]

On 2/14/2024 at 3:37 AM, Birbdad said:

Just take your dip oiler, put a bead of oil on the back of the setting once the shock setting has been set already, then take your wheel and poke the pivot through the jewel hole and capillary action will draw in the oil and do it slowly and precise enough you get that perfect bubble every time. 

Time to elaborate. So you have your shock setting all assembled and ready to go. Then you put a drop on the under side? Then stick the pivot through the hole and... What? Pull it right back out and check the bubble size/shape? Then, I assume, you clean any excess off the pivot and underside of the jewel? Elaborate on this, please.

[Birbdad]

Just now, spectre6000 said:

Time to elaborate. So you have your shock setting all assembled and ready to go. Then you put a drop on the under side? Then stick the pivot through the hole and... What? Pull it right back out and check the bubble size/shape? Then, I assume, you clean any excess off the pivot and underside of the jewel? Elaborate on this, please.

Yup, so for the 3rd wheel which needs hp1300 i load my black (Very small, use it for all oiling.) dip oiler up with a really generous amount and put it right over teh hole on the back of the jewel. I take my 3rd wheel and use the pinion side pivot to poke the oil through the hole, this will make a small bubble but not big enough, but enough to get it started. I then mop up some of the other oil around the hole and do it again. Usually i have to do another pass to get the bubble the right size. Take the dip oiler, put some more on the back of the jewel. At this point i keep an eye on the bubble cuz sometimes just putting more oil on the back of the setting will suck a little in so you might not need to use the pivot again to poke it through.

 

Then i use some rodico and just clean up the oil off the back of the setting and you're done! It's SO easy and so precise. 

[ManSkirtBrew]

I came up with a similar solution. I have one of these Horotec Incabloc oilers

which work great, but I bend or break the tip about every third use, and lose 50% of the replacement tips trying to install them.

 

Instead I took a broken dip oiler and honed the shaft to a fine point on the same stone I use to dress my screwdriver blades. It was easy to gently (or you'll break it, ask me how I know) move it back and forth while rolling in my fingers to get a long, thin point that is 10000% more durable than the tip on the Incabloc oiler and fits even the smallest jewel holes.

Just put a drop of oil on the jewel and poke the pointy end into the jewel hole.

It works a treat, is much easier to maneuver and see around than a wheel, and you don't have to worry about breaking or bending pivots while distributing the oil.

[Birbdad]

7 hours ago, ManSkirtBrew said:

I came up with a similar solution. I have one of these Horotec Incabloc oilers

which work great, but I bend or break the tip about every third use, and lose 50% of the replacement tips trying to install them.

 

Instead I took a broken dip oiler and honed the shaft to a fine point on the same stone I use to dress my screwdriver blades. It was easy to gently (or you'll break it, ask me how I know) move it back and forth while rolling in my fingers to get a long, thin point that is 10000% more durable than the tip on the Incabloc oiler and fits even the smallest jewel holes.

Just put a drop of oil on the jewel and poke the pointy end into the jewel hole.

It works a treat, is much easier to maneuver and see around than a wheel, and you don't have to worry about breaking or bending pivots while distributing the oil.

Yeah, the wheel i use is a throwaway from my parts drawer so i'm not that worried about the pivots. If i ever break my current black oiler i'm totally making one out of that. 

One professional in my watchmaking group uses one of the pins that holds hairspring studs in on old pre-etachron watches to do the job. 

[spectre6000]

Definitely trying this on the next one!

[Birbdad]

8 minutes ago, spectre6000 said:

Definitely trying this on the next one!

Also worth noting rodico often isn't clean, and isn't always the best way to mop up oil. I mostly clean over the jewel with the rodico but for the rest of the underside of that area i use a tapered q tip with isopropyle alcohol and get it spotless. Just don't do that directly over the jewel hole as i imagine some ipa will get sucked in to the setting.

[Waggy]

7 hours ago, ManSkirtBrew said:

I came up with a similar solution. I have one of these Horotec Incabloc oilers

Just had a thought, maybe these could also work?

 

[HectorLooi]

No need to spend money buying this. Your manual oiler will break eventually and you can sharpen the end to a sharp point. Even a sewing needle would work. Or like Alex Hamilton says, keep your old broken balance staff and use the end with the good pivot to poke the oil into the jewel.

[Birbdad]

1 hour ago, HectorLooi said:

No need to spend money buying this. Your manual oiler will break eventually and you can sharpen the end to a sharp point. Even a sewing needle would work. Or like Alex Hamilton says, keep your old broken balance staff and use the end with the good pivot to poke the oil into the jewel.

Personally i find setting and oiling balance jewels wet really easy. I just do those the old fashioned way. I tried it with my auto oiler and it was pretty awful.

[HectorLooi]

38 minutes ago, Birbdad said:

Personally i find setting and oiling balance jewels wet really easy. I just do those the old fashioned way. I tried it with my auto oiler and it was pretty awful.

I had teething problems with my auto oiler too. But I assumed it was because mine was a China copy. But after I sharpened the tip to a fine point and learning not to use the button on the side to dispense the oil, instead just pressing the pin down and relying on capillary action to "leak" oil into the jewel, it was quite consistent. 

The auto oiler makes oiling Seiko Diafix jewels less of a pain. Just clean the holes, the cap jewels and reinstall them back on the plates, then use the auto oiler to drip oil into the setting.

I know some of you will say that it can be done this way with a conventional oiler too, but an auto oiler just makes it easier.

[VWatchie]

Using the principles described here (I believe I used an Incabloc oiler) I happened to over-oil a cap jewel and I believe it happened just like @Birbdad described it...

18 hours ago, Birbdad said:

At this point i keep an eye on the bubble cuz sometimes just putting more oil on the back of the setting will suck a little in so you might not need to use the pivot again to poke it through.

Anyway, being reluctant to remove the spring and the cap jewel to re-clean it, I tried to place the tip of a dry and clean oiler (Bergeon style with a flat tip) in the jewel cup and then lift the oiler away from the cup and to my delight and surprise this removed some of the oil from the cap jewel. I had to repeat it a couple of times but it saved me a lot of time and work. Just thought I'd mention it as a tip.

Anyway, I try to stay away from Seiko's/Orient's movements as I find these cap jewels for the escape wheel and the third wheel extremely nerve-wracking to handle. I wonder if it is a robot or a human assembling those jewels and springs not larger than a speck of dust? By contrast and to me, a balance cap jewel feels like a tractor wheel to handle. I know some people never remove these tiny jewels and springs, but I find that highly questionable.

BTW, here's an image for those of you who might be a bit less seasoned and pondering what we're talking about:

Edited February 16, 2024 by VWatchie

[Birbdad]

1 hour ago, VWatchie said:

Using the principles described here (I believe I used an Incabloc oiler) I happened to over-oil a cap jewel and I believe it happened just like @Birbdad described it...

Anyway, being reluctant to remove the spring and the cap jewel to re-clean it, I tried to place the tip of a dry and clean oiler (Bergeon style with a flat tip) in the jewel cup and then lift the oiler away from the cup and to my delight and surprise this removed some of the oil from the cap jewel. I had to repeat it a couple of times but it saved me a lot of time and work. Just thought I'd mention it as a tip.

Anyway, I try to stay away from Seiko's/Orient's movements as I find these cap jewels for the escape wheel and the third wheel extremely nerve-wracking to handle. I wonder if it is a robot or a human assembling those jewels and springs not larger than a speck of dust? By contrast and to me, a balance cap jewel feels like a tractor wheel to handle. I know some people never remove these tiny jewels and springs, but I find that highly questionable.

BTW, here's an image for those of you who might be a bit less seasoned and pondering what we're talking about:

So it used to take me literally an hour or more to set those goddamned train bridge shock settings. I"m proud to say that i can set them in seconds now my tweezer skills have improved so much. In another thread somewhere here i drew a diagram of how i set them and it works super well. I'm in a discord with a lot of pro watchmakers and most of them actually don't remove those small shock settings at all. They have professional cleaning machines with the best chemicals that also use ultrasonic and they say it gets them spotless. With my pretty ghetto cleaning setup i'm not quite as confident it will fully clean them so i remove them and then set them again after my wash.

[steve855]

I use the same technique for Seiki diafix settings.  Remove spring and cap jewel for cleaning.  Reinstall, then oil from the back side.  I push the oil through the hole with... a whisker I stole from my dog's muzzle!  I snipped it off and glued the big end to a toothpick for a handle a couple of years ago, and keep it in a small plastic tube when not in use.  Don't  worry, he hasn't missed it.

Edited February 16, 2024 by steve855

[Birbdad]

3 hours ago, steve855 said:

I use the same technique for Seiki diafix settings.  Remove spring and cap jewel for cleaning.  Reinstall, then oil from the back side.  I push the oil through the hole with... a whisker I stole from my dog's muzzle!  I snipped it off and glued the big end to a toothpick for a handle a couple of years ago, and keep it in a small plastic tube when not in use.  Don't  worry, he hasn't missed it.

Lol, that works? I might try it with one of my mom's cats.

[Geotex]

I use a very fine stainless steel bristle taken from a BBQ grill brush and held in a pin vise.

[Nucejoe]

 Birbdad,

Gosh, Poor dog , for your steady supply must grow new whiskers in a hurry.   

Try acupuncture needles instead.