Balance end shake adjustments and jewel setting

[Jon]

Hi guys,

 

I wrote this lesson for my second students to understand the theoretical aspects of the Swiss lever escapement in conjunction with the practical application of end-shake and setting jewels using a jewelling tool. Both Seitz and Horia-type jewelling tools were used. Although I talk about measurements using the settings on the side of the jewelling tools, it is more about what 'feels' right, especailly when gauging the end-shake of a particular component, such as the balance, pallet and escape wheel.

Ideally, you wouldn't start by adjusting the end shake of the balance to suit your needs, but if the IncaBloc setting has been replaced or the Inca setting has been moved to replace the shockproof spring, then it is important to set the end-shake correctly. This presentation also looks at how to set the correct end-shake of the pallet in relation to the balance safety roller as well as other critical measurements, including the height of the escape wheel teeth hitting the impulse face of the pallet fork in both dial-up and dial down positions. The escape wheel and pallet have to have the exact same end-shake as each other for this reason.

Unfortunately, the slides that contain videos can't be played as I converted the PowerPoint into PDF.

I have used some diagrams from a WOSTEP handout on this subject, to show the vital measurement of the escapement in relation to the balance safety roller, so all credit goes to the author of that hand-out, which has been posted several times on this forum.

All the students that set all the jewels after removing them and the balance end-shake to its optimum got a watch movement working with much improved amplitude than when they started.

All ten jewels in the wheel train were removed as well as both IncaBloc settings. Another lesson was created just about the balance setting and disassembly and assembly of the EtaChron balance system which included removing a replacing that Inca setting. I haven't included that lesson.

Not every aspect of this work is within the presentation, as it would be very long otherwise. I talk a lot and explain more as the lesson proceeds. This lesson was held over six to seven hours.

If anyone is interested in learning more on this subject, please message me.

Lesson 16. Balance endshake & Incabloc adjustment.pdf

Lesson 16. Balance endshake & Incabloc adjustment.pdf

Edited March 3, 2024 by Jon
updated info

[JackH]

Excellent Jon! Thanks for this.

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 hours ago, Jon said:

Hi guys,

 

I wrote this lesson for my second students to understand the theoretical aspects of the Swiss lever escapement in conjunction with the practical application of end-shake and setting jewels using a jewelling tool. Both Seitz and Horia-type jewelling tools were used. Although I talk about measurements using the settings on the side of the jewelling tools, it is more about what 'feels' right, especailly when gauging the end-shake of a particular component, such as the balance, pallet and escape wheel.

Ideally, you wouldn't start by adjusting the end shake of the balance to suit your needs, but if the IncaBloc setting has been replaced or the Inca setting has been moved to replace the shockproof spring, then it is important to set the end-shake correctly. This presentation also looks at how to set the correct end-shake of the pallet in relation to the balance safety roller as well as other critical measurements, including the height of the escape wheel teeth hitting the impulse face of the pallet fork in both dial-up and dial down positions. The escape wheel and pallet have to have the exact same end-shake as each other for this reason.

Unfortunately, the slides that contain videos can't be played as I converted the PowerPoint into PDF.

I have used some diagrams from a WOSTEP handout on this subject, to show the vital measurement of the escapement in relation to the balance safety roller, so all credit goes to the author of that hand-out, which has been posted several times on this forum.

All the students that set all the jewels after removing them and the balance end-shake to its optimum got a watch movement working with much improved amplitude than when they started.

All ten jewels in the wheel train were removed as well as both IncaBloc settings. Another lesson was created just about the balance setting and disassembly and assembly of the EtaChron balance system which included removing a replacing that Inca setting. I haven't included that lesson.

Not evry aspect of this work is within the presentation, as it would be very long otherwise. I talk a lot and explain more as the lesson proceeds. This lesson was held over six to seven hours.

If anyone is interested in learning more on this subject, please message me.

Lesson 16. Balance endshake & Incabloc adjustment.pdf 7.14 MB · 7 downloads

Really great lessons John. Goldilocks ? and the three bears ?

[Hiaz224]

Many thanks for sharing it is a great topic and concise explanation full of clear pictures. Many hours behind that ppt for sure. 

I was wondering if you have other ppt or info on how to fix a new lire (incabloc spring) I am still struggling with that task to the point that every time I am about to oil the jewel cap I put a little bit of rodico on the hinge to ensure it won't come out. I am referring to the one on the main plate...

Thanks, Fernando

[Jon]

1 hour ago, Hiaz224 said:

I was wondering if you have other ppt or info on how to fix a new lire (incabloc spring) I am still struggling with that task to the point that every time I am about to oil the jewel cap I put a little bit of rodico on the hinge to ensure it won't come out. I am referring to the one on the main plate...

If I'm understanding you, you said how to fit a new lyre spring. To fit a new incabloc lyre spring, it is in slide 16 of the presentation. press out the Inca setting enough so the 'T' part of the spring can fit in the slot of the Incabloc setting, then press it back into place with a jewelling tool.

If you mean how to attach the lyre spring arms over the cap jewel, let me know and I'll post something

1 hour ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Really great lessons John. Goldilocks ? and the three bears ?

Many thanks! I use the term 'Goldilocks' a lot in my lessons. And yes, there are always three bears. I call them Peter, Paul and Jill.

In watchmaking, especially stuff involving the escapement I tell my students, "If you're going to rob Peter, then Paul is somewhere in the shadows with a baseball bat wanting paying and just when you think you've paid him off, Jill comes out from behind Paul with a flick knife because you fell into the trap of making an assumption. If you're gonna rob Peter, you have to pay Paul, so if you adjust the endshake of the pallet jewel , you have to take into account the height of the guard pin with the safety roller and Jill is the escape wheel hitting the top half to three quarters of the impulse face of the pallet jewel. Peter, Paul and Jill, I love those three! 

Edited March 1, 2024 by Jon

[Hiaz224]

Yes, my question was about fitting a new lyre spring. By the way, it was my bad that I did not notice you mentioned how to do it on page 16. Many thanks for your patience and time, best regards

[rossjackson01]

Jon.

I notice that you have given lesson 16. Obviously there are more. Are they available? 

Hope so. Really interesting and informative. I was actually able to understand and follow. I do have the tools available (Chinese set). Although I have not yet worked at that level. I can see the way forward to attempt such.

Staking set no longer holds a fear. So, onto the the next level.

On your site, You have a curriculum for for learning by attendance. Obviously I live too far away. Can I Purchase the lessons for home instruction as a distance learning course.?

Thank you.

Edited March 1, 2024 by rossjackson01

[praezis]

In the lesson is an error that may cause severe trouble:

Here the increment is 0.02 not 0.01 mm

[JohnR725]

57 minutes ago, praezis said:

Here the increment is 0.02 not 0.01 mm

somebody a while back was asking me about this and the 0.02 is basically the standard which everyone has but if you look at the links below the first one is 0.01 so they do exist. I don't know visually if you can tell what the difference is other than by seeing how many turns it takes to go up and down

https://www.horia.ch/en/Products/Jewellling-Setting-staking-tools/Jewelling-tools/Jewelling-tool-pas-fin-spindle-hole-3-00-mm.html

 

https://www.horia.ch/en/Products/Jewellling-Setting-staking-tools/Jewelling-tools/Jewelling-tool-spindle-hole-3-00-mm.html

then minor nitpicky on my part but who makes this tool?

 

 

[mikepilk]

Very useful info.

But if I saw these numbers, I wouldn't be thinking "too little end-shake" (I would have checked it)

 

BTW, the way I visualise the correct end shake, is to imagine it about the same as the pivot thickness - about 0.09mm, which agrees with your slide.

Edited March 2, 2024 by mikepilk

[Jon]

3 hours ago, praezis said:

Here the increment is 0.02 not 0.01 mm

On the jewelling tools I use they are 0.01 increments, but appreciate pointing out that it may be 0.02 mm in other tools.

I think whatever tool a watchmaker uses, they know what the measurements are before starting to use it

[Klassiker]

38 minutes ago, Jon said:

On the jewelling tools I use they are 0.01 increments

Hi @Jon, in the picture in question there are five divisions between the 10 (0.1mm) and 20 (0.2mm) markers, so surely they are 0.02mm increments?

[VWatchie]

3 hours ago, praezis said:

Here the increment is 0.02 not 0.01 mm

Well spotted. The increments on the Seitz jewelling tool are 0.01mm and 0.02mm on the Horia. More and more I have switched to using my Seitz tool since I learned that it can be used in the same way as the Horia.

54 minutes ago, Jon said:

I think whatever tool a watchmaker uses, they know what the measurements are before starting to use it

Absolutely, and it's certainly not a big deal!

[mikepilk]

I used a feeler gauge to confirm what the settings are on my jewelling tool

[Jon]

2 hours ago, Klassiker said:

Hi @Jon, in the picture in question there are five divisions between the 10 (0.1mm) and 20 (0.2mm) markers, so surely they are 0.02mm increments?

You're right, Well spotted! I used the wrong tool in the slide, so I've now corrected the slide to reflect each increment is 0.02 mm on that particular Horia style tool. Many thanks for that.

To err is human.

Edited March 2, 2024 by Jon

[praezis]

5 hours ago, Jon said:

I think whatever tool a watchmaker uses, they know what the measurements are before starting to use it

Not really. I remember being confused by this and using a wrong adjustment. Probably because I use both, Seitz and Horia.

Frank

[VWatchie]

@Jon

The PDF in the first post is no longer available. I downloaded it earlier today but future readers will likely be disappointed. Perhaps you can try to upload it again!? Thanks!

On 3/1/2024 at 4:15 PM, Jon said:

Unfortunately, the slides that contain videos can't be played as I converted the PowerPoint into PDF.

Too bad PowerPoints can't be uploaded. If it's OK with you I'll PM you my email address. You can then send me the PowerPoint (hope it's not too large) and I'll place it on my OneDrive and share the link in this thread.

[Knebo]

11 hours ago, VWatchie said:

More and more I have switched to using my Seitz tool since I learned that it can be used in the same way as the Horia.

I also saw that video 1-2 months ago and was delighted! I only had/have the Seitz. It works perfectly well with the turning knob. And yes, nice to see the 0.01 increments. 

[Jon]

1 hour ago, Knebo said:

I also saw that video 1-2 months ago and was delighted! I only had/have the Seitz. It works perfectly well with the turning knob

It only works with the newer versions of the Seitz jewelling tool, not the older ones

1 hour ago, Knebo said:

I also saw that video 1-2 months ago and was delighted! I only had/have the Seitz. It works perfectly well with the turning knob

It only works with the newer versions of the Seitz jewelling tool, not the older ones

I've reposted the original PDF file, as the original one became unavailable when I edited it, so sorry about that.

If you want the PowerPoint presentation with videos, here's the link to my cloud storage, but it won't be there forever. You will need a newer version of Microsoft Office to play the videos, otherwise they won't play

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/15lXEoRsUF_xKhRB0XaoMU566s7LB279V/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=107902587627140904870&rtpof=true&sd=true

[VWatchie]

Thanks, Jon! The video sequences really add to the content and the understanding of it, so many thanks!

Here is a link to the same PowerPoint on my OneDrive. It will probably sit there until I stop breathing, but let me know if you don't want me to share it.

Lesson 16. Balance endshake & Incabloc adjustment.pptx

10 hours ago, Jon said:

It only works with the newer versions of the Seitz jewelling tool, not the older ones

That's valuable information for those on the lookout for their first Seitz jewelling tool! 

[rossjackson01]

Jon and VWatchie Thank you for the video facility in the PowerPoint. Very informative when you see the 'live' version of the written word. Helps beyond belief. Not tried to replace a jewel or setting yet.  However, seeing the process adds to the overall learning.

[rehajm]

11 hours ago, Jon said:

It only works with the newer versions of the Seitz jewelling tool, not the older ones

For reference I believe this is the older style, absent are the inside threads for the cap that allows for horia-type pushing

[Knebo]

1 hour ago, VWatchie said:

 

11 hours ago, Jon said:

It only works with the newer versions of the Seitz jewelling tool, not the older ones

That's valuable information for those on the lookout for their first Seitz jewelling tool! 

I guess I got lucky then! It didn't know about this when I bought mine. 

But even if you get the newer version, you need to make sure the respective adapter/knob is included. 

See pictures below.