Guidance regarding magnetism, please

[Corky]

Hello,

I'm delighted to have found this forum, and I appreciate any shared expertise, advice, etc., as I learn this new hobby for me.

I have come across various comments regarding magnetism of parts being a bad thing in watch function.  I have several Elgin pocket watches - 18s, model 5, grade 288.  https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/elgin/23570328

I have noticed while disassembling them for cleaning, that a number of the small screws and springs seem to hold a faint (or not so faint) magnetic charge.  They cling to my tweezers.  Do you have advice for a standard practice in demagnetizing my tools, and watch parts?  Is this necessary?  Do them separately, or once watch is assembled?  Thank you.

[Klassiker]

You can demagnetise the fully assembled watch, or just the movement, or if disassembled all the (steel) components individually. Obviously, the first option is the easiest, but sometimes the case is designed to shield the movement from magnetism. I doubt this is true with Elgin pocket watches, but as you are disassembling anyway, your best option would be to demagnetise the whole movement outside the case.

There are a wide range of demagnetisers available, in all price classes. In my experience, the cheap blue ones with the red button work fine if used correctly.

[HectorLooi]

Do demagnetize your screwdrivers too.

[Neverenoughwatches]

2 hours ago, Klassiker said:

In my experience, the cheap blue ones with the red button work fine if used correctly

These do get a lot of stick from people, poorly made apparently.  Had mine nearly 3 years now and it has always demagged perfectly. 

[HectorLooi]

My cheap blue one was wired wrongly from the factory. Worked for a couple of times before it blew up. The LED was wired in series with the coil, that means the mains current was rectified to DC for the short time it worked and actually magnetizing objects instead.

I rewired the unit correctly and it has been working perfectly since. So if you get a cheap blue demagnetizer and it doesn't seem to work properly, it could be wired wrongly internally.

[watchweasol]

Hi from comments on the forum most demagnetisers work ok some s Hector found out have faults. Most are built in China or India. Some are called line release units as they spin quartz motors to release jammed train wheels. I built my own which is a beast, fron ex computer parts, disc drive voice coil, vdu transformer and has served many years. Passing an electric current through any coil creates a magnetic field. Demagnetising tweezers and screwdrivers is a must and also checking and demagnetising watch movements as it can cause problems especially with the balance spring.so always be aware of magnetism regarding any watch you are working on.

[CYCLOPS]

might help to have some non-magnetic tweezers too.....

[watchweasol]

Absolutely one or two pairs of brass tweezers are handy. There are also some metal alloy rweezers which are classed non magnetic.  

[JohnR725]

On 3/7/2024 at 1:27 AM, watchweasol said:

from comments on the forum most demagnetisers work ok

you're not the only one in the make the observation of they work okay and maybe they can work better? Here's an example from a watch company Omega

watch companies are interesting continuously changing their thoughts and ideas on how to solve a problem and typically throwing lots of money at the problem. That's because they have a infinite supply of money unlike us.

so let's go back to an earlier sheet from Omega where they did recommend one of the tools up above. Basically a much fancier version of your blue box and demonstrates how it has to be used. In other words when you push the button and produces a alternating magnetic field and whatever you're trying to remove the field from has to be slowly withdrawn if you expected to become demagnetized. Otherwise you just place it on her in and push the button ou'll achieve exactly the opposite. These all work by magnetizing the watch with the sine wave of the power going in and as you slowly withdraw you slowly cause the magnetism to diminish to nothing providing you do it correctly.

On 3/6/2024 at 5:28 AM, Corky said:

Do you have advice for a standard practice in demagnetizing my tools, and watch parts?  Is this necessary?  Do them separately, or once watch is assembled? 

then this is watch repair there is almost never one procedure for anything. So yes there's a whole bunch of different tools for demagnetize ing. I suppose it has to do with how much money you have. Then is it necessary no if you don't care about the watch running or keeping time if you don't care about those things then yes it's necessary. Then it depends upon how obsessed you are for when you should do this? When the watchmakers I used to work with when the watch came out the cleaning machine he would demagnetize all of the individual parts baskets before reassembly and I assume he did it after assembly but I don't actually know. somewhere is at a lecture where I'm not sure they actually carried the demagnetize are on the tool belt but if they had a tool belt it would've been on their. In other words they were continuously doing it because it doesn't actually hurts anything for the most part

then does it matter? Normally what I been taught in school before putting the watch on the timing machine you always demagnetize but by doing that you miss out on something? I was once doing a comparison of a witschi timing machine and the Chinese 1000. I did not demagnetize I timed the watches loaned to me by the person who loaned the timing machine and found something really fascinating yes this watch desperately needs to be serviced but what else does it have going wrong?

here is a timing machine program notice in the simulated paper tape the same affect the scene on the graphical display

notice the watch still needs to be serviced but something is changed?

then from out of the timing machine manual telling you the same thing we have yes magnetized watch is not a good thing. Really gets bad enough they hairspring coils could stick together in the watch will run insanely fast. So as part of his servicing watch has to be demagnetized that includes even modern watches we do it all the time in the shop is put it on the demagnetizer including watches that claim they can't be magnetized.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Corky]

Thank you ALL for your great information.  Clearly, I have a lot to learn, which is exactly why I am so thankful for this forum!

Best, Corky

Update.  I've ordered a "blue box with the red button" demagnetizer.  and we'll see if this improves my results.  It's clearly a low cost option, and a good start for this point in my journey.

[watchweasol]

Hi this book by Henry B Fried goes so way to explaining magnetism it’s als worth a read.

Electric_Watch_Repair_Manual.pdf

[CYCLOPS]

all his books are great and in layman's wording/terms.....jmo

[Corky]

Thank you so much!! I love this forum!