Wyler pocket watch / identifying movement

[BlueHarp]

Hello,

Could someone help me to identify this movement? It comes from a Wyler pocket watch, but the only thing I know is that it's an Incaflex.

Many thanks!

[praezis]

You didn‘t respond to John‘s request, did you? We need the size: is it a tiny ladies watch or a gents watch? Who knows?

Frank

[watchweasol]

Hi without the size identifying it is nigh on impossible. Armed with the size we can reference the keyless work via the BestFit books even then it’s not a certainty.

[RichardHarris123]

The keyless works is quite unusual, with the diameter, as long as it's in the Bestfit books, it should be easy. 

[Nucejoe]

 Although movements put in pocket watches aren't in general small, diameter of the movement helps searching the right page for data.  JohnR usually does that in a jiff.

Will you be kind enough to tell the diameter. 

 

 

[nevenbekriev]

Could it be a... Wyler 16''' calibre?

[BlueHarp]

The size is 36mm or 1.42 inches. That seems to be equal to 16 lines, but what is the exact name of that caliber? I will have to find an escape wheel for that movement, but I can't find any reference to a Wyler 16.

[rjenkinsgb]

When I was looking earlier on, I did find a "Wyler 16" movement, but it is very different to yours. In the article it said that one was the only fully in-house Wyler movement?

That implies yours is based on another makers movement, with Wylers customisation, but I cannot find any with the same keyless details so far.. That yoke is strange and distinctive!

[BlueHarp]

7 hours ago, rjenkinsgb said:

When I was looking earlier on, I did find a "Wyler 16" movement, but it is very different to yours. In the article it said that one was the only fully in-house Wyler movement?

That implies yours is based on another makers movement, with Wylers customisation, but I cannot find any with the same keyless details so far.. That yoke is strange and distinctive!

You're right : it seems that Wyler has used ETA and AS movements and modified them. I will continue searching which one could be mine.

[JohnR725]

9 hours ago, BlueHarp said:

The size is 36mm or 1.42 inches. That seems to be equal to 16 lines, but what is the exact name of that caliber? I will have to find an escape wheel for that movement, but I can't find any reference to a Wyler 16.

if you scroll down the page far enough you'll see a reference to Wyler 17. Because of the age it's too early for the bestfit book and even another book I looked at the 50s didn't have it listed.

https://uhrforum.de/threads/wyler-incassable-ca-1935-aussen-bauhaus-stilikone-innen-technisch-eigenwillig.383435/

 

 

 

[BlueHarp]

It's looks exactly like my movement! The link you mentionned is in german, but I understand that nobody is sure about the fact that Wyler created that calibre. It might be another manufacturer's movement which has been modified. So finding the right escape wheel will be miraculous.

 

[Endeavor]

28 minutes ago, BlueHarp said:

It might be another manufacturer's movement which has been modified

As with my ETA 2783 which is modified with a Wyler balance and there are plenty of parts for the ETA 2783 available. Now it may be a matter of finding who made the movement?

[nevenbekriev]

Actually this is a matter of repivoting. This is the easiest, the fastest and may be the only way to make the watch work again. Well, the other way is making new pinion, but it is much harder.

[BlueHarp]

Thank you. Unfortunately, I'm totally unable to do that. As a last resort, I've posted on the section "Watch Parts, Sourcing Parts, Movements, Materials and Lubrication Products" with as many photos as possible.

Wait and see ...

[praezis]

This 16 lin. is the only movement showing up in the books - a good evidence it is a genuine Wyler, not relabelled.

The name? „Wyler 16 lin.“ 

16 minutes ago, BlueHarp said:

Thank you. Unfortunately, I'm totally unable to do that.

There are certain people who can do it for you …

Frank

[rjenkinsgb]

This is the article I found re. the "Wyler 16" movement

https://www.emmywatch.com/db/movement/wyler--16/

Also another Wyler on ebay, which looks to be probably 15 - 16 ligne? with yeat another movement

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/266445977685

 

[JohnR725]

8 hours ago, BlueHarp said:

It might be another manufacturer's movement which has been modified.

one of the interesting problems and watch repair is who made your watch? It's why books like bestfit exist. Companies purchase basically oem movements and have their name put on them case them up and sell them as their own and they been doing this for a very long time. bestfit allow you to hopefully cross reference all of the various watches for parts. Plus companies like bestfit will sell the parts with their own part numbers and tell you which watches they'll fit.

For instance here's an example of a company Rolex they purchase their movements up until 2004 where they finally purchase the company that made their movements.

https://www.bobswatches.com/rolex-blog/resources/aegler-became-rolex-movement-maker.html

so yes you're movement was probably manufactured by another company that very likely we may never know who they are.

7 hours ago, nevenbekriev said:

Actually this is a matter of repivoting. This is the easiest, the fastest and may be the only way to make the watch work again. Well, the other way is making new pinion, but it is much harder.

then we have the unfortunate reality of working on vintage watches even if we somehow can identify the watch where exactly would you purchase the part from? One of the biggest problems with watch repairs getting spare parts for even newer watches anything vintage is going to be extremely problematic. Anything that's not easy to identify becomes problematic. The reason for this is if you can't identify the watch somebody on eBay selling parts for watch they scrapped will have a hard time describing whatever it is they're trying to sell

this means the only way you can do vintage watches you have to have enough tools to do things like re-pivoting.

then this problem was recognized a long time ago when this kind of thing was more common in other words no reference books no spare parts they were generic things like pinion wire. this is just pieces of long pinions with no pivots because you get to do the final steps of manufacturing and attach it to your wheel.

then because you lack the manufacturing capabilities the only other solution is to set up an active search on eBay for that type of pocket watch. Then your end up with either a complete watch or maybe if you're lucky that might be somebody selling the parts or broken watch you never know what will show up on eBay sooner or later.

Edited March 22, 2024 by JohnR725

[RichardHarris123]

It's been pointed out before, even the correct part may not fit, if the watch has been modified.