Balance wheel runs backwards

[rossjackson01]

Advice please

Sometimes the balance wheel spins backwards. I've looked on the internet but cannot get an answer. I'm sure that some of you know and can advise.

One two occasions I have cleaned a watch and done a full wheel train install. Everything up to be ready before installing the pallet fork. Just to check, I wind the mainspring and watch it spin. Spins really easy and free. However on these occasions the balance wheel is seen to begin to reverses and has rotated for nearly as much as the unwind. I check everything back to the install and check of the have done a full rebuild. All is well, but I cannot figure out what made the wheel reverse in the first place. 

I'm obviously overcoming the problem but can't see how. I am very careful with rebuilds and do not do anything different. 

In anticipation.

Ross

Edited April 9, 2024 by rossjackson01
Spelling, Grammar

[Curare]

Hi,

Do you mean the Balance Wheel or the Escape Wheel ??

[rossjackson01]

4 minutes ago, Curare said:

Hi,

Do you mean the Balance Wheel or the Escape Wheel ??

Escape wheel. Sorry for the wrong wording. My dyslexia really caused me a problem this time.  Escape wheel, definitely. Thank you.

[Curare]

Okay,

What you may be experiencing is recoil, when the spring fully unwinds inertia from the train wheels causes the mainspring to it to overrun and then in runs backwards momentarily. I'm led to belive this is a good indication of a well cleaned and serviced movement.

Others may have a better explanation.

Regards CJ

[Nucejoe]

What calib is this?

Could you have installed mainspring in wrong direction? 

I heard in some calibs a wheel can be fitted up side down, have never had such a case, though. 

The click shiws you which direction the barrel is to turn. 

What happens if you rotate the barrel in other direction.

Perhaps you have invented a new improved watch.

Edited April 9, 2024 by Nucejoe

[Nucejoe]

 Balance wheel running backwards is an ungodly new invention .

escapewheel back spin lets us hope that laying eggs is still a job for chickens.

I like my previous post deleted.

My your escapewheels always spin right, and not confuse me to lay eggs.

 

 

Edited April 10, 2024 by Nucejoe

[nevenbekriev]

Ross, I believe that when You start to wind the mainspring, actuallly the escape wheel turns in correct direction and it changes the direction only when the spring unwinding comes to the end. If so, this is something normal.

[Delgetti]

17 minutes ago, nevenbekriev said:

Ross, I believe that when You start to wind the mainspring, actuallly the escape wheel turns in correct direction and it changes the direction only when the spring unwinding comes to the end. If so, this is something normal.

Agree. In one of his books Jendritzki even says that this "turning back of the escape wheel caused by the click spring" is a criteria that the escape wheel runs absolutely free and you have done good work.

[JohnR725]

2 hours ago, Delgetti said:

Agree. In one of his books Jendritzki even says that this "turning back of the escape wheel caused by the click spring" is a criteria that the escape wheel runs absolutely free and you have done good work.

8 hours ago, Curare said:

What you may be experiencing is recoil, when the spring fully unwinds inertia from the train wheels causes the mainspring to it to overrun and then in runs backwards momentarily. I'm led to belive this is a good indication of a well cleaned and serviced movement.

Others may have a better explanation.

2 hours ago, nevenbekriev said:

oss, I believe that when You start to wind the mainspring, actuallly the escape wheel turns in correct direction and it changes the direction only when the spring unwinding comes to the end. If so, this is something normal.

9 hours ago, rossjackson01 said:

One two occasions I have cleaned a watch and done a full wheel train install. Everything up to be ready before installing the pallet fork. Just to check, I wind the mainspring and watch it spin. Spins really easy and free. However on these occasions the balance wheel is seen to begin to reverses and has rotated for nearly as much as the unwind. I check everything back to the install and check of the have done a full rebuild. All is well, but I cannot figure out what made the wheel reverse in the first place. 

oh dear end of the world how sad oh wait?

I was taught it was called backspin. backspin of the escape wheel is considered a very good thing as it indicates your gear train is nice and free. Unfortunately it doesn't occur in all watches but it is a test to verify the gear train is nice and free.

then the wording is a bit complicated hopefully it makes sense. No balance wheel and pallet fork and you attempt to wind your watch. .You can either slowly turn the crown very slowly or you can turn it fast and you get a couple of clicks on the ratchet wheel because the gear train doesn't let the energy off instantaneously it has to spin.

Now your gear train is spinning and you stop winding there is energy in the gear train and possibly still some energy in the mainspring so the gear train will spin until it runs out of the mainspring energy and it still also dissipate its spinning energy it doesn't just instantly stop. This spinning energy of the gear train is what were looking for.

How this is the hard part to see. The gear train a spinning runs out a mainspring energy continues past that point and winds the mainspring a little bit in the opposite direction. The next part can be extremely hard to see which is when it runs out of energy going forward. This is because it will stop fast and the backwards winding of the mainspring will pull it backwards. See may not actually see that stopping but if you're looking at the escape wheel and paying attention you will now see the escape wheel when it finally runs out of all the energy come to a stop going backwards. so yes it really is spinning backwards and slowly comes to a stop as it runs out of all of the energy. Then sometimes even this is hard to see because it may just stop you have to be looking at it carefully to see the backspin

so this was something that I was taught in school look for the backspin and you know your gear train is nice and free. But as I said it does not occur in all watches and you do have to be paying attention to look for it.

10 hours ago, rossjackson01 said:

I'm obviously overcoming the problem but can't see how. I am very careful with rebuilds and do not do anything different.

9 hours ago, rossjackson01 said:

dyslexia

yes dyslexia I know it well I torture everybody with my dictation software. So we could call this a dyslexia moment of the perception of something that evil and bad is actually the opposite it's an extremely good thing. So I strongly advise you not to fix something that's good as it really is a good thing.

think about it this way of free gear train easy to spin is good versus the gear train that has problems and too much friction.

 

[rossjackson01]

Curare, Nucejoe, Nevenbekriev, Delgetti  and to you JohnR275. Thank you to all for your replies.

Relief is the name. Wow! I have read these replies 3 times now, just to make sure I understand. Good to know I am getting to move in the correct way. Forward.

Brilliant hobby this.

Thank you so much.

Ross

Edited April 10, 2024 by rossjackson01
Spelling, Grammar, more information