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Seitz Tool - Help determine if Seitz or not

Hawaiikook808
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Hawaiikook808 Member

Hawaiikook808

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Aloha All,

I recently bought this Seitz tool on eBay, but it is missing some pushers reamers.  I ended up ordering new parts for those that were missing before I received the actual Seitz tool (bad idea).   Upon inspecting the pushers/bits, I noticed 23 of the 56 provided with the set had no numbers. Further inspection revealed a huge difference in the quality of those unnumbered.  Do all Seitz pushers/bits have a number on them?  I'm pretty sure that 33 of the 56 I received are cheap Chinese knockoffs.  The worst part is that I ordered $80 of parts to replace the missing pushers/bits, and now I'm looking to return the tool.

I'm not crazy, right? If these are Seitz parts, they should all be numbered, correct? The first two pictures are the Seitz (numbered), and the other pictures are the suspect parts.  Will I even be able to get a refund? 

Thanks,

Frank

 

  

0001.jpg

0002.jpg

0003.jpg

0005.jpg

eBay.jpg

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oldhippy Distinguished Member

oldhippy

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All I can say is  the set I used  was quite old and belonged to my master and it was complete the parts were numbered.  What you might have are cheap replacements could be made in the likes of China who make cheep crap. 

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Hawaiikook808 Member

Hawaiikook808

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Thanks, OH!

I agree with you. I'm currently looking at them under magnification, and they are consistent in shape and form for each section (flat pushers, pump pushers, concave, reamers, etc.). Though, a few are in bad condition and need to be replaced.  Before I cancel the return I have already initiated on eBay, can any of our members check to see if there are inconsistencies in markings on their sets?

Also, I have included a snapshot of the bottom of one of the pump pushers, which are very unique in shape.  Can someone tell me if the bottoms of their pump pushers match this photo? 

I'm hoping that Seitz had some inconsistencies in manufacturing over the years regarding markings.  Crossing my fingers.

I appreciate you guys.

Frank

Bottom of pump pusher.jpg

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Marc Distinguished Member

Marc

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I have two Seitz sets, one ancient (with the 3mm anvils) and one just old (with 4mm anvils) plus a collection of spare pushers of assorted vintage. Not one of them is marked with it's size. Something which I have found very irritating when I have been using the tool and not returning pushers to their correct place in the tray every time as it means that I have to get the calipers out and measure them.

These were bought as sets and collectively I have over 100 pushers so it would seem highly unlikely (if not inconceivable) that they are all cheap knock offs, especially as they are old enough to pre-date the prevalence of the Chinese knock off industry (at least as applied to watch making tools). I therefore believe them to be original Seitz parts. And there is no numbering.

The shape of the bottom of the pump pushers is the same as your photo. The only thing that may not be the same is that the slotted insert (looks like a screw but is in fact a bayonet) should be brass. Yours looks the same colour as the steel but that could just be the lighting.

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Hawaiikook808 Member

Hawaiikook808

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Outstanding, Marc! Your information is really helpful and clears this up, especially given that yours were purchased as sets. Thanks, man.

So, it appears I jumped the gun on this one, but I am relieved. I will say, though, that all of my reamers and concave pushers are number-stamped and appear to be of better quality.  Also, the bayonets on my pushers are actually the same color as the steel.  The next thing to do is restore the heads of these pushers with some polishing paper.  Alex at the Watch Repair channel has a nice little video on this.  

I appreciate your help!

Frank

     

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praezis Distinguished Member

praezis

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37 minutes ago, Hawaiikook808 said:

The next thing to do is restore the heads of these pushers with some polishing paper. 

You better use a flat grinding stone for this. Seitz provided a (rare) round one from Degussit.

Frank

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Marc Distinguished Member

Marc

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18 minutes ago, Hawaiikook808 said:

Does this reamer look like it fits the reamer plunger?

Yep, that's exactly how it should fit. The reamer shank is tapered and the socket in the spindle is also tapered so that the one centers in the other and is gripped tightly. If there is any wobble when the reamer is seated as far it will go then there is a problem.

The cross hole in the spindle is to allow you the push the reamer back out again. If the reamer seated much deeper then it would limit the access for pushing it back out again.

Here is one of mine for comparison.

20240503_115854.thumb.jpg.1154f95d735387ee8309952309789344.jpg

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Hawaiikook808 Member

Hawaiikook808

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Thanks again, Marc.  Super helpful.

I was wondering what the hole was for, and now it makes perfect sense. With your help and the other members here, it looks like I'm good to go with my Seitz tool set. I had to order some replacement pushers, but with those, the set is complete and in good condition.

Now, I need to figure out what tool to buy to measure jewels (amongst other watch-related parts). I had my eye on the JKA Feintaster micrometers, but people get crazy bidding on them for $400-600 USD.

image.png.40ddc97266c82ea73f87c8b8da7460c5.png

I was thinking of just a regular digital micrometer (Mitutoyo). Thoughts? 

Mahalo.

Frank

 image.thumb.png.b94ef0e131219b43b37c18c58484363f.png

 

 

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ManSkirtBrew Super WRT Addict

ManSkirtBrew

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Right now I'm making do with a similar micrometer (the one below is $45 shipped but you can find better deals) and a $20 stand. You do have to be excruciatingly careful measuring jewels, since there's no table, but if you don't have the $500 to throw around, it's a nice option.

s-l1600.thumb.jpg.5899c855cc11c91c1315f4d0998faca2.jpg

image.png.2c8796dd9db7bce5d1363dcc3051d2e5.png

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Hawaiikook808 Member

Hawaiikook808

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Thanks, ManSkirtBrew. 

I started looking for a setup like yours and ran across this.  It was about half the price of the JKA Feintaster (depending on what auction you were in), and it's a Bergeon.  I bought it because I thought the price was fair (eBay - Buy it now), and I'm a sucker for vintage tools. It also has a table, so it should be easy to use for measuring jewels. I wonder if the the contact points can be changed out. Bergeon seems to manufacture new tables and accessories for the contemporary dial version. What do you guys think of it?

I'm sorry this post seems to have taken a detour. I'm new here so let me know if I should start a new topic.

image.thumb.png.9c7333954db8850c0aba7cd004e76d27.png

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caseback WRT Addict

caseback

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On 5/3/2024 at 1:51 PM, Hawaiikook808 said:

Thanks again, Marc.  Super helpful.

I was wondering what the hole was for, and now it makes perfect sense. With your help and the other members here, it looks like I'm good to go with my Seitz tool set. I had to order some replacement pushers, but with those, the set is complete and in good condition.

Now, I need to figure out what tool to buy to measure jewels (amongst other watch-related parts). I had my eye on the JKA Feintaster micrometers, but people get crazy bidding on them for $400-600 USD.

image.png.40ddc97266c82ea73f87c8b8da7460c5.png

I was thinking of just a regular digital micrometer (Mitutoyo). Thoughts? 

Mahalo.

Frank

 image.thumb.png.b94ef0e131219b43b37c18c58484363f.png

 

 

You might want to look for "thickness gauges". They are used for measuring things like paper or leather etc. They are spring loaded like the feintaster. If you file a small section out of one of the anvils, you can measure balance staffs the same way as you can with a feintaster. They are cheap as well (found these for €10..).

Screenshot_20240603_231549_Chrome.jpg

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Knebo Distinguished Member

Knebo

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On 5/2/2024 at 10:15 AM, Marc said:

have two Seitz sets, one ancient (with the 3mm anvils) and one just old (with 4mm anvils) plus a collection of spare pushers of assorted vintage. Not one of them is marked with it's size

I have an old 4mm Seitz set and I seem to pushers with and without size markings. So some are from the original set and others were replaced. But surely all of them are pre-Chinese clone era. So Seitz may have done differently over time. 

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gpraceman Super WRT Addict

gpraceman

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On 5/3/2024 at 5:51 AM, Hawaiikook808 said:

Now, I need to figure out what tool to buy to measure jewels (amongst other watch-related parts). I had my eye on the JKA Feintaster micrometers, but people get crazy bidding on them for $400-600 USD.

image.png.40ddc97266c82ea73f87c8b8da7460c5.png

I was thinking of just a regular digital micrometer (Mitutoyo). Thoughts?

 image.thumb.png.b94ef0e131219b43b37c18c58484363f.png

 

I don't understand the crazy prices on used JKA Feintasters.  Cheaper to buy new from CousinsUK and less likely to have issues.

I have a micrometer like this or my analog Mitutoyo.  Having the little table to set things on is nice.

My Seitz set has mostly unmarked pushers.  Some are marked but that's likely because the watchmaker that I bought it from has multiple sets and was able to give me a mostly complete set by stealing some pushers from a partial set.

s-l1600.jpg

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nickelsilver Distinguished Member

nickelsilver

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5 hours ago, gpraceman said:

I don't understand the crazy prices on used JKA Feintasters.  Cheaper to buy new from CousinsUK and less likely to have issues.

 

Yes- and even cheaper straight from the maker (and 30% off on top of that right now, 240 Euro)

https://www.toolteam.com/de-DE/kaefer-jka-feintaster-40001-t-766312-4031452400014.html

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