Introduction: Bob Smith USN (ss) and dadd'y Elgin

[xdandeman]

I was directed to introduce myself< > Bob Smith,  veteran,  retired,  still ticking.  After I started training in emergency medicine it became clear I needed a good time piece (checking pulses, or respirations, or tourniquet times etc.)  I wanted one like my fathers trench Elgin with the radium dial,  but that dial has faded badly since the 50s so I looked on Ebay.   There are a lot of interesting and affordable vintage (mechanical) watches and while Rolex is a little expensive the second best watch , Elgin, is quite available, especially if you're a beginner collector and don't mind lady watches.  It's disturbing that they  call the new watches  "vintage", those new battery operated jobs.   Getting my fathers Elgin restored looks like $150 to start but becoming a 'watch smith'  costs just a few dollars  (without ultrasonic cleaning tank).   I just started collecting and know nothing but willing to learn.   ( I hope I find an affordable way to get dad's Elgin back to it's radiant radium glory)   (I'd appreciate any advice on cleaning antique watches (I guess alcohol isn't recommended) (or how to tell what movements are best (I have a 555 coming).)

[RichardHarris123]

Hello and welcome from Leeds, England. 

[watchweasol]

Hi And welcome to the forum, best watches to train on are cheap but working watches as if they don’t work after your ministrations it’s your fault. Getting broken watches defeats the object. When you work on these and they don’t work afterwards you don’t know whether it’s what you did or was it knackered before you started , so try and make life easier without accumulating junk.

Attached a file which is worth going through

TZIllustratedGlossary.pdf

[Mercurial]

Hi Bob,

Welcome to the forum and thank you for your service. 

I would never try to discourage you from getting into this wonderful hobby/profession, but please be aware, it does not cost just a few dollars to get into watch repair. 

Tools are expensive and in many instances the cheap knockoffs are worthless, especially when learning. 

You can get the tools needed to disassemble, clean, inspect, reassemble and lubricate a watch without spending thousands, but as soon as you start getting into task-specific tools, there are so many and they don’t come cheap. 

My suggestion is to start with the basics required to disassemble, clean, inspect, reassemble and lubricate only, and build upon that gradually as the need for other tools arises. 

The advice above regarding starting out on working movements is gold. Many of the non-running watches on eBay have been bought, tinkered with, deemed too difficult and then sold again, often with more damage done each time. 

Without experience, you clean and service a non-runner and it still doesn’t run. What now? Troubleshooting is difficult as a beginner. This can become very frustrating. 

I would encourage you to buy a working movement, and learn to strip and service it. If it isn’t running afterwards, you know it’s down to you, and as long as you didn’t damage anything you know that the parts you’ve got can form a ticking watch.

An excellent movement to start with is the ETA 6497 clones from China, such as the ST36. They’re not expensive, and although it finds use in some larger wristwatches, this movement was originally designed for use in pocket watches, so everything is larger and easier to see and handle. 

Once you can service a new ST36 and have it running better than it did when it arrived, you’re definitely ready to step up to working vintage watches and then think about repair of non running or poorly running watches. 

As far as cleaning solutions go, you will not do better than the commercial watch cleaning and rinsing solutions that are available. You’ll find plenty of suggestions for home brew cleaners online, but the professional products are superior and you want to give yourself every advantage you can, especially when you start working on vintage movements containing hardened decomposed lubricants and often years worth of other dirt and dust.

Alcohol is ok for cleaning or rinsing movement parts that don’t contain any shellac. The pallet fork and roller table contain jewels secured with shellac and will tolerate a rinse in alcohol but not prolonged exposure. Methanol dissolves shellac faster than ethanol, and isopropyl alcohol dissolves shellac slower than ethanol.

Just in case you don’t know already, the radium on the dial (and likely the hands) of your Dad’s Elgin is highly radioactive. It is safe enough when safely contained within the watch case, but the moment you open the watch and especially when handling the dial or hands you must take precautions against inhaling or ingesting any radium. 

Best Regards,

Mark

[xdandeman]

On 5/10/2024 at 5:51 AM, watchweasol said:

Hi And welcome to the forum, best watches to train on are cheap but working watches as if they don’t work after your ministrations it’s your fault. Getting broken watches defeats the object. When you work on these and they don’t work afterwards you don’t know whether it’s what you did or was it knackered before you started , so try and make life easier without accumulating junk.

Attached a file which is worth going through

TZIllustratedGlossary.pdf 4.2 MB · 0 downloads

Nice file  Just got old pocket watch in and tools,  can I get it back together or should I give up.  we'll see  thanks for the info

[oldhippy]

Thank you for your introduction and welcome to this friendly forum.

We all look forward to your contributions and continued involvement. 

[clockboy]

Welcome Bob, enjoy the forum.

[VWatchie]

Excellent post and advice @Mercurial  I agree with everything you say.

On 5/11/2024 at 6:17 AM, Mercurial said:

it does not cost just a few dollars to get into watch repair.

Yes, this is important to understand. The good thing is that you can start pretty slowly and then if your interest grows, increase the number of tools. I wouldn't be surprised if I've spent the equivalent of one or two good Rolex Submariner watches since I started eight years ago. The nice thing is that I appreciate my tools at least as much as my watches. There is something truly magical about using a well-used patinated Swiss quality tool that a skilled watchmaker used for decades.

On 5/11/2024 at 6:17 AM, Mercurial said:

An excellent movement to start with is the ETA 6497 clones from China, such as the ST36.

Again, excellent advice, and when you want to go wristwatch size but still not take any financial risks I'd recommend Vostok 24xx movements such as Vostok 2409.

On 5/11/2024 at 6:17 AM, Mercurial said:

The pallet fork and roller table contain jewels secured with shellac

Most modern watches, less than 60/70 years or so, seem to secure the impulse jewel with friction only so that should be safe to rinse in IPA (isopropanol, not Indian Pale Ale).

On 5/11/2024 at 6:17 AM, Mercurial said:

but the moment you open the watch and especially when handling the dial or hands you must take precautions against inhaling or ingesting any radium.

I've never handled Radium but Kalle Slaap made an interesting video about it some time ago. As I understand it, it's the dust that can "kill" you. https://youtu.be/Z-A-e8zSoOM

 

[Mercurial]

On 5/19/2024 at 8:03 PM, VWatchie said:

I've never handled Radium but Kalle Slaap made an interesting video about it some time ago. As I understand it, it's the dust that can "kill" you. 

Radium is very dangerous if it gets into your body. This can happen by ingestion, inhalation or contact with broken skin. 

Radium lume dust is more mobile than flakes, and therefore more likely to find its way into the body unless the right precautions are taken. 

The greater the dose of radium absorbed into the body, the more danger it poses, whether it’s in the form of dust or flakes makes no difference once it’s inside you. 

The radium present on a watch dial won’t kill you outright. Once absorbed, it is chemically very similar to calcium, and the body treats it like calcium and stores it in your bones. From there within your body, it’s alpha particle radiation plays havoc with nearby cells’ DNA, causing mutations as cells divide. The end result is often cancer. 

Some watch brands used radium into the 1970s, so if you are working on watches with lume that were made before 1980, you should assume that the lume contains radium unless you’ve proven otherwise with a Geiger counter.

Geiger counters are now cheap enough that anyone working with vintage watches would be wise to buy one and learn how to use it. The absorption of a tiny quantity of radium can potentially have life changing impacts upon your health. 

Best Regards,

Mark

 

[xdandeman]

On 5/26/2024 at 3:49 AM, Mercurial said:

Radium is very dangerous if it gets into your body. This can happen by ingestion, inhalation or contact with broken skin. 

Radium lume dust is more mobile than flakes, and therefore more likely to find its way into the body unless the right precautions are taken. 

The greater the dose of radium absorbed into the body, the more danger it poses, whether it’s in the form of dust or flakes makes no difference once it’s inside you. 

The radium present on a watch dial won’t kill you outright. Once absorbed, it is chemically very similar to calcium, and the body treats it like calcium and stores it in your bones. From there within your body, it’s alpha particle radiation plays havoc with nearby cells’ DNA, causing mutations as cells divide. The end result is often cancer. 

Some watch brands used radium into the 1970s, so if you are working on watches with lume that were made before 1980, you should assume that the lume contains radium unless you’ve proven otherwise with a Geiger counter.

Geiger counters are now cheap enough that anyone working with vintage watches would be wise to buy one and learn how to use it. The absorption of a tiny quantity of radium can potentially have life changing impacts upon your health. 

Best Regards,

Mark

 

I'm a little concerned reselling a watch I think was radium that has dissipated the luminous material.  I guess the radium is still active if they took it apart somehow or broke the crystal.  I don't see any warnings associated with vintage Seikos etc.    I'm still mulling what to do with Dad's radium elgin and my old U.S. Navy radium watch.   

 

[xdandeman]

On 5/10/2024 at 5:51 AM, watchweasol said:

Hi And welcome to the forum, best watches to train on are cheap but working watches as if they don’t work after your ministrations it’s your fault. Getting broken watches defeats the object. When you work on these and they don’t work afterwards you don’t know whether it’s what you did or was it knackered before you started , so try and make life easier without accumulating junk.

Attached a file which is worth going through

TZIllustratedGlossary.pdf 4.2 MB · 1 download

I'm still waiting for a decent jewelers screw driver set I ordered one from england,  so far the ones available are too fat,   These screws are tiny,   I have a couple broken watches I think I can swap parts,  I  got an good Pocket watch to try and clean and oil.   we'll see.  Having a blast though.  People sell boxes of watches they don't have time to mess with,  it's a treasure hunt   When I have to drive 50 mi. and pay $5 to get a battery replaced I see a market, if I get good enough.   (some replacements really suck, and just when I think I'm good I slip and scratch a back)  and I need more tools. 

[watchweasol]

Hi. Watch repair is as much about collecting tools as it is repairers as nearly everything needs a tool to do but as long as you enjoy the hobby go for it. Have a look at the watch repair site , the courses run by our administrator Mark Lovick.