Rolex cal. 3135 issues

[VWatchie]

Yesterday I regulated the rate using my newly acquired Microstella tool. What I feared could become a difficult and gruelling experience turned out to be very pleasant. When I finished, I reflected on how much easier it would be if all movements were regulated similarly to this Rolex calibre 3135. It turned out to be not only quite simple but also very precise.

@Jon's tips and video as well as @Endeavor's and @Mark's tips (links in previous posts) were very useful. I don't have a tripod for my phone so I can show how I held my hands but at least the picture shows my setup except for the watch itself which is a junk watch as the Rolex watch is currently spinning on my Cyklomat.

I am right-handed so I held the tweezers with my left hand which could rest safely on the wooden box and handled the Microstella tool with my right hand which could rest safely on the work bench. The advantage of this type of small (and inexpensive) case holder as seen in the picture is that the Cyclops eye above the date display is in a cavity in the holder which means that the watch case wont tilt.

In general, I think it's easier to regulate the rate while the movement is on a movement holder as seen in Jon's video, but I still decided to do the adjustment with the movement mounted in the case, and since Rolex advertises the Microstella tool this way I wasn't too hesitant.

By letting the inside of the tweezers rest against the balance bridge (the yellow dots), as Endeavor describes, I got good stability and could grip the rim of the balance wheel without the risk of accidentally moving the tweezers sideways, lengthwise, or vertically. After that, it was no problem to place the tool over the Microstella screw (the red dot) and rotate.

Following Rolex's instructions, I stopped the balance wheel by pulling the crown out to its extreme position and then carefully rotating the balance wheel until the first of the two screws needing adjustment was aligned with the most convenient way to hold the Microstella tool in relation to the screw. What I didn't realise, which scared me a bit in retrospect, was that the impulse pin could have caught on the outside of the fork horn as I rotated the balance wheel. I guess you can probably feel if that would happen, but I think you need to be a little observant of this which is why I mention it.

The tool itself I bought at Cousins. It is a rather expensive Korean clone of the original Rolex tool and works well but does not give a feeling of really high quality. What is critical is that the fit with the Microstella screws is precise and there is nothing to complain about.

Something to complain about is the weight on the inside of the tool which is supposed to always hang vertically and indicate how much you have rotated the tool. On my copy, the weight rotates so slowly that it almost loses its function. Perhaps I got a Friday afternoon model but maybe it can be adjusted. To compensate, I made marks with a permanent marker on the wheel to make it easier to see how far I should rotate it. It worked well.

When rotating the Microstella tool, you must try to keep an eye on both the screw and the tool. There is a risk of focusing only on the tool and slipping off the screw, thinking that you are still rotating the screw but in reality, you are only rotating the tool. The screws are seated with relatively high friction (as Jon mentioned) but because we are working in a microscopic environment, there is still a risk that you do not notice that you have slipped off the screw while rotating the tool.

So, that sums up what proved to be a pleasant experience. The current rate while the watch is spinning on my Cyklomat is +1.6 seconds/day so I think I'm done, and I'm pretty sure I didn't upset the poise. I'll do some measuring on PCTM a bit later.

Edited November 5, 2024 by VWatchie

[VWatchie]

Tomorrow it is finally time to hand over the watch to the owner so this may be my last post in the thread. It feels a bit solemn. It has been an educational and fun time to have had the privilege of servicing and repairing this beautiful Rolex Oyster Perpetual Date with its fantastic movement calibre 3135.

All the help and information you have so generously shared has been crucial, so again a big, big thank you. Special thanks to @Jon for sharing his professional and in-depth experience and to @Knebo for the encouragement (and facts) between us enthusiasts. I am sure many others will appreciate and benefit from this thread in the future.

The final challenge was to regulate the rate with the Microstella tool as described in my previous post, which I did in two rounds, most recently yesterday. Here are the final results measured with PCTM. Each measurement is averaged over three minutes.

It is very satisfying to see that all values and performance tests, including the rate, are now well within Rolex's specified limits.

Edited November 9, 2024 by VWatchie

[Knebo]

50 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

Tomorrow it is finally time to hand over the watch to the owner so this may be my last post in the thread. It feels a bit solemn. It has been an educational and fun time to have had the privilege of servicing and repairing this beautiful Rolex Oyster Perpetual Date with its fantastic movement calibre 3135.

All the help and information you have so generously shared has been crucial, so again a big, big thank you. Special thanks to @Jon for his professional and in-depth experience and to @Knebo for the encouragement (and facts) between us enthusiasts. I am sure many others will appreciate and benefit from this thread in the future.

The final challenge was to regulate the rate with the Microstella tool as described in my previous post, which I did in two rounds, most recently yesterday. Here are the final results measured with PCTM. Each measurement is averaged over three minutes.

It is very satisfying to see that all values and performance tests, including the rate, are now well within Rolex's specified limits.

That looks excellent! Congratulations! 

[Knebo]

I finally also had the chance/need to regulate a Rolex balance (cal 3035).

I also arranged the ergonomic setup like you, @VWatchie. That really helps. Thanks also to @Jon for your guidance. 

As you said, in the end, it wasn't as scary as expected. Quite fiddly to get it onto the star-screw, but turning precisely was easy - the screw had just the right resistance. 

And well, one has to give it to Rolex... the precision is just incredible with these free-sprung balances. I'll have to wear it a few days to see real-life precision, but I think it's going to be 0 to +1. At almost full wind, across all positions, the delta is only 3 (-1 to +2).

[VWatchie]

4 hours ago, Knebo said:

And well, one has to give it to Rolex... the precision is just incredible with these free-sprung balances.

I do agree! Breguet, free-sprung, and the microstella screws on the inside of the balance rim seem to be the trick! I'd love to have a Rolex someday, perhaps an Explorer, but the prices are still crazy, at least for me.

Regarding regulation, I contacted the owner of the Rolex this thread originally discussed. I set the owner's watch to the second on November 10th last year, and when I asked how it was running, she said she hadn’t felt the need to adjust the time yet. When I asked how much it was gaining or losing, she told me it was less than four minutes fast. That's about 2.7 seconds plus on average per day. Pretty sweet! 

[Knebo]

59 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

uet, free-sprung, and the microstella screws on the inside of the balance rim seem to be the trick!

And high-tech poising, I guess.

 

59 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

perhaps an Explorer

Funny you say that, one of my grail watches is an Explorer ref 1016... but those prices are nuts.

 

1 hour ago, VWatchie said:

That's about 2.7 seconds plus on average per day.

That's fantastic. Also, that the owner seems to wear it everyday!

[VWatchie]

1 hour ago, Knebo said:

And high-tech poising, I guess.

For sure!

1 hour ago, Knebo said:

Funny you say that, one of my grail watches is an Explorer ref 1016... but those prices are nuts.

The essence of what a Rolex is all about!

1 hour ago, Knebo said:

That's fantastic. Also, that the owner seems to wear it everyday!

Yes, she has been wearing it 24/7 probably because I told her it would stop running if she didn't wear it, or maybe she's just so fond of it (I would be). Maybe I should let her know that she can safely take it off for at least 24 hours before wearing it again without any problems. I'm not sure she knows that 

[Leonid]

Hello everyone, could you help me, my Rolex 3135 watch rushes 120 seconds a day, I have no experience in their maintenance yet, but I would like to learn if adjusting the balance screw of the spiral will help me?

Edited February 23 by Leonid

[VWatchie]

On 2/23/2025 at 11:11 AM, Leonid said:

I would like to learn if adjusting the balance screw of the spiral will help me?

I assume you mean adjusting the microstella screws. Very likely not. More likely your movement will need a full overhaul. When was it last serviced? Demagnetizing might help if it is otherwise in good condition. Low amplitude and hight rate (as in your case) would indicate it has been magnetized.

Edited February 26 by VWatchie

[Leonid]

I bought a used watch, it's 30-31 years old according to the serial number, when they looked at it in the service, and the timograph said the accuracy was 4-5 seconds a day.Datajust 16233.
After that, I wore them for 2 days and rode trains and the subway in Moscow, when I arrived home 2 days later, I noticed that they were in a hurry.
I tried to demagnetize them, at first the compass reacted, then after demagnetization the compass does not react to the movement of the clock next to it.
But the clock is just as fast.
Maybe I should remove the lid and try to demagnetize it closer to the spiral.

[AndyGSi]

18 minutes ago, Leonid said:

I bought a used watch, it's 30-31 years old according to the serial number, when they looked at it in the service, and the timograph said the accuracy was 4-5 seconds a day.Datajust 16233.
After that, I wore them for 2 days and rode trains and the subway in Moscow, when I arrived home 2 days later, I noticed that they were in a hurry.
I tried to demagnetize them, at first the compass reacted, then after demagnetization the compass does not react to the movement of the clock next to it.
But the clock is just as fast.
Maybe I should remove the lid and try to demagnetize it closer to the spiral.

How long ago was it serviced.

I suggest if you're not 100% with watch repairs then you either take it to a repairer of leave it till you've more experience.

[Leonid]

1 minute ago, AndyGSi said:

How long ago was it serviced.

I suggest if you're not 100% with watch repairs then you either take it to a repairer of leave it till you've more experience.

I do not know how long the service has been in operation.With the clock face down, the timer now shows 24 seconds, with the dial up 76-90.Anyway, thanks for the tips.

[AndyGSi]

1 hour ago, Leonid said:

I do not know how long the service has been in operation.With the clock face down, the timer now shows 24 seconds, with the dial up 76-90.Anyway, thanks for the tips.

It sounds like demagnetizing won't do you any good and it needs a complete service. 

[Leonid]

I noticed that if the clock is wound up only for 1-2 turns , then the amplitude of the clock is low , like 178 , and the clock shows 3-6 seconds of haste. If you start 10-20 revolutions, they start to rush for 130 seconds and the amplitude rises 240-270, is it possible that it's a clockwork spring?

[AndyGSi]

2 hours ago, Leonid said:

I noticed that if the clock is wound up only for 1-2 turns , then the amplitude of the clock is low , like 178 , and the clock shows 3-6 seconds of haste. If you start 10-20 revolutions, they start to rush for 130 seconds and the amplitude rises 240-270, is it possible that it's a clockwork spring?

Not sure what you mean here as yes it's a spring in a barrel that you're winding.

At the low amplitude do you mean the timegrapher is showing between 3 & 6 seconds fast?

Can you post photos of the movement and in particular the balance spring.

Can you also post photos of what the timegrapher is showing at the different amplitudes.

[JohnR725]

On 2/23/2025 at 2:11 AM, Leonid said:

Hello everyone, could you help me, my Rolex 3135 watch rushes 120 seconds a day, I have no experience in their maintenance yet, but I would like to learn if adjusting the balance screw of the spiral will help me?

the answer for the question is no it will not help you.

Adjusting the balance screw for regulation only works if you actually have a regulation problem. Attempting to regulate a watch for a problem that is not a regulation problem is not going to be helpful at all and will actually make things worse.

 

2 hours ago, Leonid said:

I noticed that if the clock is wound up only for 1-2 turns , then the amplitude of the clock is low , like 178 , and the clock shows 3-6 seconds of haste. If you start 10-20 revolutions, they start to rush for 130 seconds and the amplitude rises 240-270, is it possible that it's a clockwork spring?

not understanding how your Rolex works is going to lead to problems and confusions.

let's look an example of a confusion and problem that you're having of lacking of understanding of what exactly are trying to do. Rolex has a procedure if you would like to evaluate your watch on the timing machine.

notice in order to wind your watch all the way up to its maximum requires 40 turns complete turns of the crown. In order to reach the 50% minimum required for running of your watch it requires 20 turns. so basically you're not winding your watch up to get it to run at all and that's leading to confusions.

 

On 3/3/2025 at 10:28 AM, Leonid said:

timograph said the accuracy was 4-5 seconds a day.Datajust 16233.
After that, I wore them for 2 days and rode trains and the subway in Moscow, when I arrived home 2 days later, I noticed that they were in a hurry.

you didn't say how fast the watch was two days later?

In order to do a proper timing procedure you have to follow a procedure putting the watch on the timing machine and getting a result instantaneously is not a procedure. A timing machine shows what the watches doing at exact instant it's on the machine in that exact position wearing a watch means the watches moving around in a variety of positions which is why Rolex has a procedure.

So in its procedure you're supposed to look at the watch on the timing machine in five positions

then the procedure is to wind the watch all the way to the maximum. Do not place in the timing machine yet as the watch needs to run a little bit the settle down when it's wound to the maximum the numbers will not be quite right. So typically would wait anywhere from 15 minutes to about an hour. So basically 15 minutes would work well. then as you're rotating the watch around in the various tests positions you should allow about 20 to 30 seconds between rotating positions for the watch to stabilize and then let it sit on the timing machine for about 30 seconds to get your numbers. Down below is an example of the procedure.

then the actual specifications for the 3135 is this

 

 

[VWatchie]

On 3/3/2025 at 7:28 PM, Leonid said:

Maybe I should remove the lid and try to demagnetize it closer to the spiral.

Yes, that is generally a good idea! Just as the watch case can protect the movement from becoming magnetized, it can, I would assume, protect it from becoming demagnetized.

The best approach is probably to remove the movement from the case entirely before demagnetizing it, but simply removing the case back should be sufficient.

If I understand correctly, modern hairsprings are not particularly sensitive to magnetism. Instead, surrounding components usually become magnetized and subsequently affect the hairspring.

That aside, it’s quite clear that demagnetizing will not solve your issue. A typical symptom of a magnetized movement is low amplitude and a fast rate. In other words, if you demagnetize the watch and notice that the amplitude increases and the rate slows down, the movement was magnetized and needed demagnetization.

A service and possibly a repair are likely the only reasonable solutions. Not only to fix the issue but also to protect the movement from excessive wear and damage.

I'm guessing you're Russian, so here is the same in your native language:

Да, в целом это хорошая идея! Так же, как корпус часов может защищать механизм от намагничивания, он, предположу, может мешать и размагничиванию.

Лучший способ – полностью вынуть механизм из корпуса перед размагничиванием, но, скорее всего, будет достаточно просто снять заднюю крышку.

Если я правильно понимаю, современные спиральные пружины не особо чувствительны к магнитным полям. Скорее, намагничиваются окружающие детали, которые затем влияют на спираль.

Тем не менее, вполне очевидно, что размагничивание не решит вашу проблему. Типичный признак намагниченного механизма – низкая амплитуда и высокая скорость хода. То есть, если после размагничивания амплитуда увеличивается, а ход замедляется, значит, механизм действительно был намагничен и нуждался в размагничивании.

Техническое обслуживание и, возможно, ремонт – это, вероятно, единственные разумные решения. Не только для устранения проблемы, но и для защиты механизма от чрезмерного износа и повреждений.

[Leonid]

21 hours ago, AndyGSi said:

Not sure what you mean here as yes it's a spring in a barrel that you're winding.

At the low amplitude do you mean the timegrapher is showing between 3 & 6 seconds fast?

Can you post photos of the movement and in particular the balance spring.

Can you also post photos of what the timegrapher is showing at the different amplitudes.

I can't provide photos at the moment, but I'll keep that in mind, thank you.

[Leonid]

46 minutes ago, Leonid said:

I can't provide photos at the moment, but I'll keep that in mind, thank you.

This happens after 40 turns, and I wait an hour. then I measure them. I can't open the watch because I don't have the key right now, I'm waiting for it. I'm not a watchmaker, but I just want to become one and learn.

[JohnR725]

42 minutes ago, Leonid said:

I'm not a watchmaker, but I just want to become one and learn.

when doing timing machine diagnostics the minimum would be three positions you always want to have one crown position typically crown down. The dial up and down amplitudes should be almost identical and so should the timekeeping. I have a suspicion if we saw the crown down position fully wound up it would be below the minimum of 200° at 24 hours this watch desperately needs to be serviced.

then your outside of the range of regulation which is a maximum of  ± 150 seconds or basically it's a waste of time to try to regulate if you're having a issue because the watch hasn't been serviced properly in a very long time.

then your timing machine does it have a graphical display that we could get a picture of when the Rolex is on it? Graphical displays are nice for diagnostic purposes.

[Leonid]

22 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

when doing timing machine diagnostics the minimum would be three positions you always want to have one crown position typically crown down. The dial up and down amplitudes should be almost identical and so should the timekeeping. I have a suspicion if we saw the crown down position fully wound up it would be below the minimum of 200° at 24 hours this watch desperately needs to be serviced.

I roughly calculated that each revolution of the crown adds 5-7 seconds, for example, 1 revolution- the clock is in a hurry for 7-10 seconds a day, 2 revolutions are already 15-18, 10 revolutions = 120.40 revolutions 170-190.
If you just shake the watch and wear it on your hand, they are almost in no hurry, but if you wind them manually, they start to rush like this, as described above.
And yes, the amplitude drops below 200 in places .

[JohnR725]

4 hours ago, Leonid said:

I roughly calculated that each revolution of the crown adds 5-7 seconds, for example, 1 revolution- the clock is in a hurry for 7-10 seconds a day, 2 revolutions are already 15-18, 10 revolutions = 120.40 revolutions 170-190.
If you just shake the watch and wear it on your hand, they are almost in no hurry, but if you wind them manually, they start to rush like this, as described above.
And yes, the amplitude drops below 200 in places .

there is a interesting word associated with timepieces isochronism. In an ideal perfect world amplitude will have zero effect on timekeeping. Unfortunately we do not live in a ideal world an amplitude will affect timekeeping but usually at much lower amplitudes. This is why the watch companies will specify a minimum amplitude the watch should run at 24 hours. Because anything below that timekeeping will suffer

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isochronous_timing

4 hours ago, Leonid said:

If you just shake the watch and wear it on your hand, they are almost in no hurry,

when you do this put it on the timing machine and tell us what the numbers are in three positions dial-up, dial down and crowned. This is because whether you shake the watch or hand wind the watch both actions will wind up the watch. Shaking though typically requires way way more than winding by the crown I don't think Rolex actually publishes how many times you to shake the watch to wind it up the full but it would be quite a bit.

 

 

[Leonid]

As soon as the watch stops winding, I will shake it and take measurements. Has anyone disassembled jubilee bracelets with the help of such machines?In Russia, few people do this, I want to sort out my bracelet this way myself. What is the price for this in your countries? (service price ).And what is the size of the pins that wear off?

Edited Monday at 06:25 AM by Leonid

[AndyGSi]

I've done them in the past but no idea what the cost would be here in the UK or who would attempt it these days.

Pin size depends on the strap but they're normally between 1.2mm & 1.4mm.

Edited Monday at 07:26 AM by AndyGSi

[Leonid]

13 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

I've done them in the past but no idea what the cost would be here in the UK or who would attempt it these days.

Pin size depends on the strap but they're normally between 1.2mm & 1.4mm.

So there are 1.2mm and 1.4mm? There are 2 different sizes in 1 strap? 62523H 18 bracelet.from 16233