Vendor selling small amount of Moebius oils. Legit?

[BFernandes]

Hi there.

Forgive me if this is a question with an obvious answer like "Do you believe in Santa?", but in AliExpress I found some decants of what it seems to be a variety of Moebius oils.

Silly question: Is this really Moebius oil?

[JohnR725]

59 minutes ago, BFernandes said:

Forgive me if this is a question with an obvious answer like "Do you believe in Santa?", but in AliExpress I found some decants of what it seems to be a variety of Moebius oils.

Silly question: Is this really Moebius oil?

I've seen something similar to this on eBay. Someone seemingly helping you out by breaking up those really expensive bottles into?

It brings up all kinds of interesting questions like if you're purchasing oil brand-new in original bottles it has an expiring date. These do not have any such dates so you're going to pay a premium price for oil that you don't actually know how old it is. Then when the biggest concerns anyone has is how does the oil get out of the bottle I'm assuming they use a syringe. So realistically if they wore gloves and a dust free environment you could get clean quantities of the exact amount of oil they claim.

Then I remember the seller on eBay helping you out giving you these good deals etc. but are they? For instance I snipped out some images for 9010 and D5. Let's start with D5 if we purchased a 20 mL bottle off of Amazon the cost would beBasically $40 and purchasing our bargain oil in little teeny-weeny bottles were getting 2 mL at a price of? Oh there's a 50% off sale normal price would be and now are getting at a sale price. But let's look at the Amazon price it should be four dollars per 2 mL. Instead the sale price the bargain price $6.93 and the regular price $13.87. Notice a minor discrepancy on pricing that bargain really isn't that big of a bargain.

Then we have the 9010 Amazon price varied by quite a bit it depended upon which seller I was looking at. Basically anywhere from roughly $30 for 2 mL all the way up to a bargain for them $50. Now instead a getting to milliliters I could did for the D5 you're only going get .5 mL which would run you $7.50 versus their price of $6.93 at least the sales price so I guess you are saving a few pennies.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[tomh207]

I am very sceptical about these, even buying 100ml from Switzerland, parting it out to 2ml bottles the losses and labour costs even in China would likely make it unprofitable.

 

Tom

[JohnR725]

Out of curiosity I went to eBay as that's where I previously saw this interesting practice of ripping off the scared hobbyist. Initially what seemed like an amusing endeavor has turned somewhat depressing as there is some really greedy people out here seemingly trying to help you out but maybe I'm just misunderstanding their intentions.

So for instance here's somebody selling a nice huge bottle of 0.5 mL at basically $18. Similarly I guess on the surface this doesn't look too bad. That only works out to $72 per standard 2 mL bottle. Although I did see another seller selling you one of those 2 mL bottles for $50 which I thought was a ripoff.

 

Yes the amusement started wearing off with things like this 0.2 mL or basically 1/10 of a standard 2 mL bottle. Or $170 for standard bottle I guess then this is a bargain for somebody. It looks like the best price I'm finding for the HP oils in the standard 2 mL bottle on eBay are about $40.

 

This one is very amusing new old stock freshly opened bottle of lubrication this actually supposed to be quite good.

Problem is it was made when exactly? Yes there really is a reason why they put expiring dates on bottles although the Elgin synthetic oil seems to last forever and the Hamilton is supposed to be just as good so conceivably it does last forever. So once again you're getting a's spacious huge quantity of 0.2 mL at $15

So enough fun of looking at the ripoff price ofEBay lubrication. But if you take your time not everybody on eBay's ripping you I did find someone selling 2 mL bottles of HP oil for $40 which seems much more reasonable compared to the other sellers were breaking it up and it's super tiny little droplets of oil.

 

 

[BFernandes]

Hi gents, thank you for all your inputs.

I can understand why these are more expensive if we multiply their price by 10 and get a value much higher than a 20ml bottle. It's a decant. It's suppose to be profitable by splitting a 20ml bottle in 10 tiny bottle and selling it for double what each tiny bottle costs him. Makes sense to me. On top of that, the starting hobbyist doesn't want 3~4 bottles with enough oil to service hundreds of watches. Me, a starting hobbyist, I'm starting slowly, so the expiry dates concern me. What's the point in buying these bottles, if I'll only service, say, 10 watches in the next 2 years? 

I'll continue looking for good deals inside the EU. I guess my gut tells me not to go with the Chinese vendor.

Thanks!

[JohnR725]

11 hours ago, BFernandes said:

so the expiry dates concern me. What's the point in buying these bottles, if I'll only service, say, 10 watches in the next 2 years? 

Several years ago I was at a lecture where I learned that lubrication expires? So armed with my new information I replaced all the lubricants I had and? Yes several hundred dollars and all new oils. Have I replaced them after they expired because all the new lubricants do have expiring dates in the answer is no. Not only have I not replace them but I have no intention of ever replacing them. Not only that but I was really excited several months ago to purchase some brand-new Elgin oil which hasn't been made by Elgin since probably the 60s and that oil is still highly sought after.

So on this group and other groups of the endless debate over why lubrication is so expensive and why does it expire is occurring. One of the problems with a bottle lubrication is it's hard to tell how old it is it doesn't change color when it expires doesn't explode it looks identical to what it was made even of its 2030 years old there is no way of telling. So they put expiring dates on it so you can see how old it is. If you are a professional watchmaker charging money to do repair work then it would probably be worthwhile to replace the oil on a regular basis just because. But as a hobbyist I really wouldn't worry about it all. If you're really concerned keep an eye on your watches see what the performance of them is if you see a performance issue just clean the watch again and use the same oil that has expires as it's probably just fine.

[PQR]

From the UK I bought cheap tiny vials of 9010, 9104 (HP1300), 9415 and 8217 from ebayer dondy0114 in this listing: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/276048651571

They came in their tiny containers exactly as pictured and I can see no contamination under my cheap "20x" eyeglass. I've done a few watches and have no reason to doubt the authenticity, but also no way to check it! The seller speaks of taking care over expiry dates.

As a mere tinkerer I'm confident enough. And although it might work out at three times the price per ml, the tiny amounts are enough for a few watches per year almost indefinitely! So it's a good buy for someone like me.

 

Edited June 8, 2024 by PQR
header of url in the link I gave was incorrect so it didn't work when clicked

[BFernandes]

11 hours ago, PQR said:

From the UK I bought cheap tiny vials of 9010, 9104 (HP1300), 9415 and 8217 from ebayer dondy0114 in this listing: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/276048651571

They came in their tiny containers exactly as pictured and I can see no contamination under my cheap "20x" eyeglass. I've done a few watches and have no reason to doubt the authenticity, but also no way to check it! The seller speaks of taking care over expiry dates.

As a mere tinkerer I'm confident enough. And although it might work out at three times the price per ml, the tiny amounts are enough for a few watches per year almost indefinitely! So it's a good buy for someone like me.

 

Thanks! I just need to find a decanter within the EU.

[nickelsilver]

In the Ebay link above, you get 1ml of 9010 for 16 pounds. 2ml, in factory sealed bottle, from Cousins, is 17 pounds. They do have Kluber P125 in small quantities, which is interesting. But a lot of it really is false economy. I think a lot of people just assume that oil is extraordinarily expensive across the board from every supplier- it's often not just more expensive from these re-packagers, it's literally the same price for half or less quantity.

[mbwatch]

A few years ago, I started out my workbench with a $50 oil kit from ebay with tiny quantities of 9010, HP1300, 8200, 9501, 9415. But the seller was from my own state and known personally by a professional watchmaker I'd taken a starter class with. She doesn't seem to still be selling kits though.

This was for me, part of the initial investment and a development phase of "can I do this work, do I have the patience and dexterity." The economics of my quantities received vs the price originally packaged volumes were not really a consideration because I wasn't buying for long term or high throughput (as a pro would need). It was simply a matter of spending $50 on something I was uncertain to succeed at vs spending $150 with no greater guarantee of success.

Just adding hobbyist perspective here. And I was fortunate that a professional watchmaker could vouch for my oil repackager.

Edited June 9, 2024 by mbwatch

[PQR]

2 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

In the Ebay link above, you get 1ml of 9010 for 16 pounds. 2ml, in factory sealed bottle, from Cousins, is 17 pounds.

Your general point is well made, but in my case I was talking about the teeny 0.2ml vials, e.g. 9010 for £6.87. This is considerably worse value for money unless this is all you need, in which case it's great! When you multiply by the ~5 different kinds of lubricant you need, it makes a big difference for a beginner. 

0.2ml is plenty for a leisurely tinkerer as long as you're careful not to spill it! I made a little stand for the vials by drilling holes in a plastic bottle top. Then I carefully transfer a drop or two from an upright vial to a covered oiling cup using a large oiler as debated in another thread here.

[BFernandes]

On 6/9/2024 at 4:06 PM, PQR said:

Your general point is well made, but in my case I was talking about the teeny 0.2ml vials, e.g. 9010 for £6.87. This is considerably worse value for money unless this is all you need, in which case it's great! When you multiply by the ~5 different kinds of lubricant you need, it makes a big difference for a beginner. 

0.2ml is plenty for a leisurely tinkerer as long as you're careful not to spill it! I made a little stand for the vials by drilling holes in a plastic bottle top. Then I carefully transfer a drop or two from an upright vial to a covered oiling cup using a large oiler as debated in another thread here.

Absolutely. This reminds of another interest of mine - perfums - which, instead of spending 150 Euro in a bottle, I bought some decants, just to use a handful of times without breaking the bank. 

If I manage to find a decanter with fair prices, I'll buy him some "samples", otherwise I'll buy the real thing - the 2ml bottles.