cleaning tiny springs

[Terrinecold]

Hello,

 remember one video or other mentioning that tiny springs don’t do well in mesh baskets used to put parts in before using an ultrasonic machine. 
sure enough yesterday on my first parts cleaning the click spring for my st36 slipped partially into the mesh and was delicate to recover. 
So I wonder what is the alternative should I put the springs directly in the mason jar with the bridges?

Subsidiary questions which parts do you group in the same brass and mesh little baskets (see picture)

 

Answering part of my own question. Putting the springs into the mason jar directly was as dumb an idea as they come. 
 

I still have hope to find my click spring but not very high. 
 

After the cycle and after removing the different baskets and bridges. I emptied the washing fluid into another jar through a coffee filter. But still haven’t found it. I guess it is stuck in something by capillarity so there is still a chance to find it. 
 

 

[Terrinecold]

Answering part of my own question. Putting the springs into the mason jar directly was as dumb an idea as they come. 
 

I still have hope to find my click spring but not very high. 
 

After the cycle and after removing the different baskets and bridges. I emptied the washing fluid into another jar through a coffee filter. But still haven’t found it. I guess it is stuck in something by capillarity so there is still a chance to find it. 
 

Update: found the click spring at the bottom of the wash jar. Very hard to see as that jar is murky

[mikepilk]

I usually put them in mesh baskets like yours, but I have had them fall through the mesh.

They really don't need much cleaning. Rubbing with some Rodico, them a dip in some IPA would probably be sufficient. This is also what I do with the very smallest screws.

[Waggy]

10 hours ago, mikepilk said:

but I have had them fall through the mesh.

I used to do the same and had the same issue, but I had a cunning plan......  "as cunning as a fox what used to be Professor of Cunning at Oxford University but has moved on and is now working for the U.N. at the High Commission of International Cunning Planning."

I now use the same setup, but I place an old glass crystal from a ladies watch  on top on the spring inside the mesh basket, this prevents the spring from standing up and it cannot now slip through the mesh:

Edited June 3, 2024 by Waggy

[mikepilk]

9 minutes ago, Waggy said:

I used to do the same and had the same issue, but I have a cunning plan......  "as cunning as a fox what used to be Professor of Cunning at Oxford University but has moved on and is now working for the U.N. at the High Commission of International Cunning Planning."

I now use the same setup, but I place an old glass crystal from a ladies watch  on top on the spring inside the mesh basket, this prevents the spring from standing up and it cannot now slip through the mesh:

I agree that is very cunning. I will have to try that. As some of my springs completely vanished, "Like an old oak table".

[Waggy]

1 minute ago, mikepilk said:

I will have to try that.

Been doing it for a while, can't remember if I thought of it or heard it somewhere, but works a treat.

[Zendoc]

Waggy - very cunning!  Never thought of that. I’ll try it.  Before I became wise to this ultrasonic risk, I  lost several small springs out of mesh baskets -gone forever.  I now just clean small springs by hand, avoiding the risk of the basket. It doesn’t take much time or effort.  The other parts I’ve lost in an ultrasonic cleaner are dial feet screws.  I always screw them into the plate very carefully, but have had several migrate out with the vibration of cleaning.  Now I check for retention of these screws when I take the plate out of the cleaner and before I do anything to the cleaning solution it came out of.  I learnt the hard way never to discard cleaning solution until you’re sure you’ve recovered all the parts that went in to it.  Obvious, I know. 

[RichardHarris123]

The cleaning solution can be strained through a coffee filter, to recover any small parts.

 

Edited June 3, 2024 by RichardHarris123

[oldhippy]

My way works every time. My faithful little pot with it's screw on lid and inside Ronsonol lighter fluid put them in that, most muck will float off, take each one out,  put  on tissue paper and fold, the paper will absorb any liquid and you can use your blower just to make sure.  No more tiny springs flying all over the place or getting down on your hands and knees sweeping the floor. 

[Zendoc]

@oldhippy - yes, cleaning them by hand in solvent removes the risk and all the time searching for them when they wander.  I do the same for the very small screws. I also really like the coffee filter paper recovery technique, Richard - wish I’d thought of that before I sent a couple of dial feet screws down the drain one fateful day.

 

[oldhippy]

On a slightly different note  I used to buy the filter paper from boots for wine/beer and filter the cleaning fluid and rinse, I had a gadget that consisted of two round pieces you placed the paper between the two parts and press down and it would fit into the top of the jar and with a jug poor and filter until it all went through.  

[eccentric59]

Small screws and springs always get hand washed in a weighing bottle with a little agitation from a fine artist's brush. (Seeing as I am a professional artist, I got loads of old brushes about, so there's that.)

 

Only those super heavy yoke springs that look like they came off the suspension of a '53 Ford go in the basket.

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 hours ago, Zendoc said:

@oldhippy - yes, cleaning them by hand in solvent removes the risk and all the time searching for them when they wander.  I do the same for the very small screws. I also really like the coffee filter paper recovery technique, Richard - wish I’d thought of that before I sent a couple of dial feet screws down the drain one fateful day.

 

I use coffee filters to filter out large particulates, hairs etc from cleaning fluids, i put them inside a plastic funnel to keep the filter to shape. The fluid can be quite slow to drain through, i thought about getting a reusable mesh filter instead.

[oldhippy]

That is another good tip. I dread to think how much the L & R cleaning and rince cost these days. I remember it used to be in 1 U S imperial gallon., which is not so much as the UK measurement. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

On 6/3/2024 at 6:04 PM, oldhippy said:

That is another good tip. I dread to think how much the L & R cleaning and rince cost these days. I remember it used to be in 1 U S imperial gallon., which is not so much as the UK measurement. 

Around  £12 - £13  per litre for L n R . The Elma stuff is a little bit cheaper more so if bought in the bigger 10 and 30 litre tubs which the  L n R doesn't seem to be available from Cousins. Which is all still cheaper or the same cost than if someone were buying multiple small tins of lighter fluid. 

[mikepilk]

I buy the Elma cleaners as Cousins sell them in 2.5L containers (£29.45+VAT). The L&R are only sold in bigger 3.8L containers(about £47+VAT). I use about half a jam jar of fluid and change after 5 watches. It's lasted me years and is similar in price to buying naphtha, but it cleans much better. So for anyone still using naphtha/lighter fluid, I recommend switching. It's a bigger expense up front, but they will last you a long time, and you will notice the cleaner/shinier parts.

[Neverenoughwatches]

4 minutes ago, mikepilk said:

I buy the Elma cleaners as Cousins sell them in 2.5L containers (£29.45+VAT). The L&R are only sold in bigger 3.8L containers(about £47+VAT). I use about half a jam jar of fluid and change after 5 watches. It's lasted me years and is similar in price to buying naphtha, but it cleans much better. So for anyone still using naphtha/lighter fluid, I recommend switching. It's a bigger expense up front, but they will last you a long time, and you will notice the cleaner/shinier parts.

Absolutely true Mike, buying the tins of lighter fuel isn't economic.   There is some other purer naptha available in bigger tins but it's much more expensive. I'm very curious to see how well gasoline cleans, residue etc. 

Just now, Neverenoughwatches said:

Absolutely true Mike, buying the tins of lighter fuel isn't economic.   There is some other purer naptha available in bigger tins but it's much more expensive. I'm very curious to see how well gasoline cleans, residue etc. 

Naptha is often quoted as a raw ingredient of petrol and other fuels It's the other added bits and bobs that help to make the fuel burn that dont get mentioned. As ex Aerospace you might know ?

14 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Absolutely true Mike, buying the tins of lighter fuel isn't economic.   There is some other purer naptha available in bigger tins but it's much more expensive. I'm very curious to see how well gasoline cleans, residue etc. 

Naptha is often quoted as a raw ingredient of petrol and other fuels It's the other added bits and bobs that help to make the fuel burn that dont get mentioned. As ex Aerospace you might know ?

Lol there's a lot of chemicals in petrol, one of them is a rust inhibitor. 

[RichardHarris123]

I used petrol on a clock, it cleaned really well, couldn't see any residue but didn't brighten the parts. 

[Waggy]

48 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

there's a lot of chemicals in petrol

This is true, perhaps diesel would be a better option as it tends to have less additives:

"Diesel is composed of about 75% saturated hydrocarbons (primarily paraffins including n, iso, and cycloparaffins), and 25% aromatic hydrocarbons (including naphthalenes and alkylbenzenes). The average chemical formula for common diesel fuel is C12H23, ranging from approx. C10H20 to C15H28. Petrol consists of hydrocarbons with between 5 and 12 carbon atoms per molecule but then it is blended for various uses. Overall a typical petrol sample is predominantly a mixture of paraffins (alkanes), naphthenes (cycloalkanes), aromatics and olefins (alkenes). The ratios vary based on a variety of factors."

source

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 minute ago, Waggy said:

This is true, perhaps diesel would be a better option as it tends to have less additives:

"Diesel is composed of about 75% saturated hydrocarbons (primarily paraffins including n, iso, and cycloparaffins), and 25% aromatic hydrocarbons (including naphthalenes and alkylbenzenes). The average chemical formula for common diesel fuel is C12H23, ranging from approx. C10H20 to C15H28. Petrol consists of hydrocarbons with between 5 and 12 carbon atoms per molecule but then it is blended for various uses. Overall a typical petrol sample is predominantly a mixture of paraffins (alkanes), naphthenes (cycloalkanes), aromatics and olefins (alkenes). The ratios vary based on a variety of factors."

source

I tnought about diesel which i read has aliphatic hydrocarbons, but diesel has a greasy feel to it which must be problem with cleaning ability. 

44 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

I used petrol on a clock, it cleaned really well, couldn't see any residue but didn't brighten the parts. 

i have read about petrol for clocks somewhere, probably an old book. Not bothered about brightening metal, i have elma ammoniated for that but we have to be careful not to over submerge in it. Repeated cleaning in ammoniated solution might have an undesirable effect. I like the idea of cleaning with petrol experiment, besides the fumes.

[RichardHarris123]

I could definitely see it being useful for a cheap initial clean. 

[Waggy]

Just found this:

"Diesel leaves a residue. then you need to clean that residue with, wait for it, another solvent. kerosene is the better and safer cleaning solvent if you are going to be using something by the gallon and cheap. it is about the same thing as diesel as a 'fuel oil' but kerosene is a known and common industrial cleaning agent... no one uses diesel if kerosene is available"

As far as I am aware kerosene is the US name for parafin.
 

source

[oldhippy]

Ronsonol lighter fluid was paid for by the company I worked for. When it comes to cleaning clocks I used Horrolene clock cleaner plus other methods depending on the type of movement. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

On 6/6/2024 at 11:10 AM, Waggy said:

Just found this:

"Diesel leaves a residue. then you need to clean that residue with, wait for it, another solvent. kerosene is the better and safer cleaning solvent if you are going to be using something by the gallon and cheap. it is about the same thing as diesel as a 'fuel oil' but kerosene is a known and common industrial cleaning agent... no one uses diesel if kerosene is available"

As far as I am aware kerosene is the US name for parafin.
 

source

Last night's experiment coming up later today, i bought some Kerosene. Tested 6 fluids that are in common use for cleaning and a couple of interesting findings. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

Here is an evapouration test of 5 solvent type fluids in common use for cleaning watch parts , and for a comparison a proprietary cleaner. The list in order of testing and result is as follows 1.  Lighter fluid  2.  IPA  3.  Methylated spirits  4.  Acetone  5.  Kerosene  6.  Elma ammoniated.  This maybe helpful in determining how good their cleaning ability is. The testing was kept fairly strict as far as a diy approach can be. A cupped mirror was used to place a single drop of fluid at it's center and timed until the drop completely evaporated or i ended the test, the mirror was throughly cleaned with IPA and dried between each test. Each picture is in order of the test starting with picture 3. My thoughts and notes are pic 3. The lighter fluid left quite a thick layered stain.  4. IPA was less stained.  5. Meths was very light on staining but left a thin outside ring and droplets at the center that would not evaporate ( possibly contamination in the meths ? ) 6. Acetone was by far the fastest evaporation rate leaving again light staining but a heavier outer ring stain.  Pic 7. Kerosene which was  interesting,  very low evaporation rate but a high wetting nature that climbed the whole of the mirror walls in 6 minutes, even with heat from a hairdryer the kerosene would not evaporate.  Pic 8. Elma ammoniated which did not evaporate or move at all for 8 minutes and pic 9. needed extra 5 minutes of heat to dry out completely . Pic 10. Is the mess from the dry Elma fluid when i tried to clean the mirror. Make your own conclusions from these results.