Talk me out of polishing this pocket watch

[Simeon]

My father in law has asked me to 'clean up' his (he got if from another much older relative) pocket watch.

Apparently it is a New South Wales railway watch and depending upon your status in the railway, you either got gold plated, silver plated or this, the 'Ganger's watch' - I think it's Pewter. Pretty sure my Father in law means 'polish it up' along with a service but I am not sure that's the best idea. While the patina is pretty ugly, I would be concerned about the loss of history. 

It's signed as a swiss movement but my usual Google Lense reverse image search doesn't show anything up as to the manufacturer ( I can't see any marks on the back plate underneath the balance). Any ideas as to whose movement it is?

What do we think? Definitely not going to machine polish but an hour, or so, with a jewellery cloth might make it look presentable. 

I think the movement has been sprayed with WD40 ( that's my FiL's style) but it runs well, if gaining massive amounts of time. 

I would probably run the case through the ultrasonic with some simple green to get it clean first. What about that crown? Need to clean the grooves well. Could I use the 'baking soda and aluminium foil' technique?

[Waggy]

There is polishing with cleaning pastes and then there is polishing as in buffers.

I understand your dilemma, if it is pewter then any polish will fade quickly back to a dull grey, so if you use a buffer or Dremel you will have removed the history for nothing. If I were in your shews I would clean it with a paste type polish, my go-to for unusual materials is Flitz, it is mild, but does a great job - every time I use it I think "how come I don't use this more often!?!?"

Also, if its a real ceramic dial then you can use denture tablets to clean it, I have only done it a few times myself with great results, maybe more experienced people on here who are used to dealing with ceramic dials could weigh in to support or comment on this method?

Edited June 3, 2024 by Waggy

[RichardHarris123]

Your father in law has asked for it cleaning so you should go ahead. Clean first and then as Waggy said said polish by hand. I use autosol but it is probably very similar to Flitz, it depends on what is available in your country. 

[rjenkinsgb]

8 hours ago, Simeon said:

My father in law has asked me to 'clean up' his (he got if from another much older relative) pocket watch.

That looks familiar!

I was recently given one with a very similar state case - but yours is not as bad as mine!

I was advised the one I have had a gunmetal case and was supposed to have a blued finish - the inside back cover, the blue-black, is what the outside should be.

To see if it is gunmetal or pewter, see if a magnet is attracted when near it, but I'd remove the movement first and demagnetise afterwards.

This is the one I did, as much an experiment as a definite solution; just don't use the boiling part, as this did not do anything useful other than wreck the old pan I used.

 

 

The cracks in an enamelled dial can apparently be made invisible with denture cleaner, though I've not tried that myself.

 

[tomh207]

Whatever method or level you decide to take it too, can I suggest when you get there you put 3-4 thin coats of renaissance wax on it and buff it well. This will give a good protection against finger marks and oxidising in the future.

 

Tom

[Neverenoughwatches]

8 hours ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Your father in law has asked for it cleaning so you should go ahead. Clean first and then as Waggy said said polish by hand. I use autosol but it is probably very similar to Flitz, it depends on what is available in your country. 

I also use autosol rich,  cases definitely,  as with all polishes it does abrade surfaces. At x10 fairly noticable  Polinum and Polinoxx are the finest finish I've come across up to now, brilliant stuff

[RichardHarris123]

16 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I also use autosol rich,  cases definitely,  as with all polishes it does abrade surfaces. At x10 fairly noticable  Polinum and Polinoxx are the finest finish I've come across up to now, brilliant stuff

Correct but we only see at X1 magnification.  Not visible to the human eye. 

[oldhippy]

That is made of gunmetal and it should be left as it is. Those marks on the back if removed will make the back thin. With age that is what happens to gunmetal which is part of the watch history.   

[RichardHarris123]

36 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

That is made of gunmetal and it should be left as it is. Those marks on the back if removed will make the back thin. With age that is what happens to gunmetal which is part of the watch history.   

For once @oldhippy, I disagree with you.  A light polish by hand will remove microns, the thickness of the case will be minimal, without trying to remove all the blemishes. I may be wrong and quite often am. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

2 hours ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Correct but we only see at X1 magnification.  Not visible to the human eye. 

Yep i use it on cases but i recently tried it to polish up a pin pallet fork, it does leave fine scratches visible under magnification where as polinum polished those out.

[oldhippy]

The back when new would have been the same colour as the rest of the case as you can see very dark gun  metal is a very dark blue/black and would not be shiny. So unless the owner intends to match it how it would have been when new which  I don't think it can. It should be left as it is. 

[nevenbekriev]

Yes, gum netal, which actually means iron. It is thick enough to be grinded in order to remove the rust pits and then polished, but it will need blackening oxidation in the end for protection from getting rusty.

The watch has nothing to do with the railways, it is the same like the 'squirrel' candys - You do not really expect to find a squirrel inside...

[Simeon]

6 hours ago, oldhippy said:

The back when new would have been the same colour as the rest of the case as you can see very dark gun  metal is a very dark blue/black and would not be shiny. So unless the owner intends to match it how it would have been when new which  I don't think it can. It should be left as it is. 

I think you are right. I can see now that the case would have been blued from new with a finish similar to the inner surfaces of the opening case back. As you say, there's no easy way to match that finish at home (obviously a home chemical blue such as the gun blue isn't quite acceptable). I will stick with cleaning with soap and water in the ultrasonic and consider the tarnish to be part of its charm. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, nevenbekriev said:

The watch has nothing to do with the railways, it is the same like the 'squirrel' candys - You do not really expect to find a squirrel inside...

I'm more of a Bassett or Rowntree fan myself, I've never thought to find a particular breed of dog or a garden feature inside the sweet containers either . I grew up in a sweet shop from the age of six, i think all the E numbers i ingested as i was growing up helped to make me a bit loony tunes. 

[RichardHarris123]

To me Gun metal is a type of bronze, used of course for making fire arms.

[nevenbekriev]

'Gun metal' in watches has nothing to do with the metal for guns. It is about the oxidation finish, which was the same as in weapons made of steel. Actually, this is the cheapest type of watch cases, as they were made of regular iron sheets, but they got popular and modern at the time, as were good looking. There are alot expencive watch makes that used gun metal cases along with the silver and gold ones.

[RichardHarris123]

I've learnt something new, always associated gun metal with bronze. I assume it could be re-blued? 

[oldhippy]

All you need to know about gun metal.

Gun metal, also known as red brass in the United States, is a type of bronze – an alloy of copper, tin, and zinc. Proportions vary but 88% copper, 8–10% tin, and 2–4% zinc is an approximation. Originally used chiefly for making guns