Reversing wheels for ETA 2824 = SW200-1 and ETA 2892 = SW300-1

[Knebo]

Hello all,

I am wondering about the interchangeability of specifically the reversing wheels between ETA and Selitta movements. 

Do the SW200-1 reversing wheels fit in the ETA 2824?

Does the SW300-1 reversing wheel fit in the ETA 2892?

Let me elaborate why this may be important.

While CousinsUK still supplies NOS reversing wheels for ETA movements, it is probable that these parts are now 5-10 years old! 
--> Does the factory lubrication of ETA reversing wheels vanish/dry out over time (when sealed in the blister?

Selitta parts, I assume would be new/newer. 

--> IF the parts are interchangeable and IF the ETA factory lubrication somehow vanishes/dries over time: would it make sense to buy Selitta reversing wheels for ETA movements, even if ETA reversing wheels can still be bought??

 

Background: the technical documentation of ETA and Selitta movements specify that their reversing wheels should not be cleaned, but replaced. While it has been suggested to just clean them anyways and then submerge in Lubeta V105, I still prefer to replace old parts if that's recommended.

[SwissSeiko]

In my experience, trying to swap "clone" parts onto the real McCoy has caused me issues. But my clones were of the chinese variety, so this may work for you. 

As far as NOS, when something has factory applied oil, its safe to assume the oil is dried up since it hasn't been moving. I would do a lubeta dip(or make your own) and call it a day.

[Knebo]

Thanks for your comment!

I'm just worried that adding V105 would mix badly with the potentially dried/old lubrication. The tech sheet for V105 specifies that "Preparation of the support before use : All parts must be clean and dry." (https://www.moebius-lubricants.ch/sites/default/files/security_sheet/tinf_v105_en_1.pdf)

 

[VWatchie]

There are two good cross-references you can check, and I already did.

https://www.emmywatch.com/db

http://cgi.julesborel.com/?_gl=1*1c1sjug*_gcl_au*OTE2ODU1MjI1LjE3MTc2NzkyMzM.

None of these cross-references shows that the ETA and Sellita calibres are interchangeable in this respect. I'm not sure though as it could be that the databases haven't been updated.

34 minutes ago, Knebo said:

I'm just worried that adding V105 would mix badly with the potentially dried/old lubrication.

I would not apply V105 w/o first properly cleaning them.

[Knebo]

5 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

There are two good cross-references you can check, and I already did.

https://www.emmywatch.com/db

http://cgi.julesborel.com/?_gl=1*1c1sjug*_gcl_au*OTE2ODU1MjI1LjE3MTc2NzkyMzM.

None of these cross-references shows that the ETA and Sellita calibres are interchangeable in this respect. I'm not sure though as it could be that the databases haven't been updated.

oh thanks for this! 

I also noticed that Cousins would mention the compatibility between ETA and Selitta for some parts, but not for others (incl reversing wheels), see two sceenshots below:

 

 

 

7 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

41 minutes ago, Knebo said:

I'm just worried that adding V105 would mix badly with the potentially dried/old lubrication.

I would not apply V105 w/o first properly cleaning them.

Yes, my instinct here is the same. Either clean+V105 or use as-is from the blister.

 

an addition from a different thread, posted by @Jon:

3 minutes ago, Jon said:

The pack the part is in is oxygen free so it stops or rather slows down oxidation of the lubricant on the part. It is already a 'dry' lubricant, so is unlikely to dissipate like greases and oils. If the lubricant on the reversing wheel(s) has gone over time, you'll soon know when winding the watch and seeing the rotor spin as well. if that is the case, remove the reversing wheel, clean and lubricate. No biggie!

see here for context: https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/25027-eta-2892-a2-service-walkthrough/?do=findComment&comment=252043

 

[Knebo]

So, I did an experiment. Not a fair one, I'll warn already.

I compared the performance of the automatic works with:

a) old (but functioning) reversing wheel, cleaned and treated with V105

b) new ETA reversing wheel, taken as-is from the blister

 

Test 1: signs of rotor spinning when manual winding

--> both performed fine, but the new wheel was better (super smooth)

Test 2: With the automatic works fully assembled but not installed in the movement, held vertically, let the rotor swing from a 90° angle.

--> new wheel the clear winner

 

As I said, not a fair comparison because I'm comparing an old wheel (functioning, but potentially with slight wear) with a brand new one.

 

But still, I think it's sufficient confirmation that the potentially-old ETA wheels sold by  CousinsUK are still in perfect condition despite their age and don't need new lubrication.

[VWatchie]

Interesting experiment @Knebo. Thanks for sharing! It also tells us that if we want maximum performance we should replace the reversing wheel with a new one which is the recommendation of ETA. I never do that as long as it's working fine but with this new knowledge, it's something that can be consider as an option.

[ColdWind]

On 6/5/2024 at 6:47 PM, Knebo said:

Do the SW200-1 reversing wheels fit in the ETA 2824?

My watchmaker friend once told me that you can swap reversing wheels between SW200 and ETA 2824 but NOT the whole bridge, just the wheels. I asked him that about parts interchangeability because I was working on a Maurice Lacroix with a rusted SW200's ball bearing. He said that he doesn't know about the bearing but I try swapping anyway, first I put the whole ETA rotor on the SW200 and it worked perfectly, so I punched the rusted bearing on the Maurice Lacroix rotor out and replaced it with ETA's. Since the bearing gear connects directly to the reversing wheels I say the wheels must be swappable. Don't know about 2892 and SW300 though, I never asked my friend about that. I wish someone out there with parts could spend their time to try swapping parts between various ETAs and SWs then make a compatible list, we the community would really appreciated it.

Edited June 9, 2024 by ColdWind