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Caravelle as First movement 11DP aka Citizen 0241


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17 minutes ago, durant7 said:

And the goal is for a newb to improve on that?   I get it.

No definitely not. It will establish what it's doing now and see how long that will last. Initially only one of practice disassembling and reassembling not worrying about cleaning oiling or any of that until you get your hand eye coordination really good which this really isn't enough practicing to do that but it's better than the typical no practicing that others like to do

oh and thinking of specifications this watch is supposed to be equivalent to the Swiss ETA 6497 – 2 for which we have timing specifications and procedures to follow plus a?

So for instance if it is actually a copy or clone of a need to change the timing machine settings to this

image.png.f1cbcc1bcb6f9dadc224d14ac0f2796a.png

If your left angle is off that's what would cause the abnormally high amplitude you're seeing that might be making happy but that's out of specifications.

image.png.95edf00aeb1c14ae65a677bf9a0c1a21.png

Notice your amplitude is too high probably because the lift angle is wrong

image.png.bef2b4f4ceece44d61b3262294344cc5.png

 

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On 6/22/2024 at 4:30 PM, durant7 said:

Thank you AndyGSi.  I was not sure of the exact name of this watch piece.  

Watchweasol's post with a pdf of all watch parts is an excellent source but the image below still left me unclear as to how to describe my broken part.  Setting Lever Spring.  Seems to me this Casio design combines the setting lever and spring into one?  

Net lesson, just find a parts watch with this common low value movement.

image.png.90d3a87bd771dd8730ca43aff040b472.png

Different folk use different names for parts, most often the part's function, and sometimes to describe what it resembles regardless of it's function ie .castle wheel, anchor. I particularly like all the old traditional names, they seem much simpler yet more descriptive. This one is also sometimes referred to as a set bridge with jumper spring.  Setting parts bridge cover with integrated spring. Personally i think Its a good idea to learn all the variations inc. foreign names, French and German especially since parts and tech sheets are often Swiss.

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Updated TG to 44 degrees lift angle and snapped a quick photo before heading to work.  

ST36 seems to be running fine. Second box from Esslinger. I am in US and Cousins is not a thing here.  New range of loupes, 9010 for some future date and the accountant sees nothing. A demag unit to demagnetize my Dumont Stainless #A tweezers. Argh!  I guess if it does not day Antimagnetic Dumont, a SS Dumon can still become magnetized.  Finding the tiny broken part off my Caravelle Spring Lever and the need to pluck it off my magnet with tweezers...lesson learned.  Don't use tweezers you plan to use on the watch bench near a magent! Many lessons learned on small part finding.  Happily the part was not needed but I decided no part, broken or whole, should go unaccounted.

 

IMG_4665.jpg

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1 hour ago, durant7 said:

I am in US and Cousins is not a thing here

I suppose it depends on who you ask in the US? A while back somebody was pointing out to me that the best place in the universe to buy mainsprings was from cousins versus anywhere else including eBay. On the other hand eBay you can usually get your patient original mainsprings like for pocket watches and cousins will have aftermarket. But there are a lot of people in the US to cousins is a number one source to get things from.

Can I get a better picture of how your holding the movement of the timing machine movement holder? Something doesn't look right

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On 6/26/2024 at 7:13 AM, ManSkirtBrew said:

I have these and like them, but I've also noticed they stop being sticky pretty quickly. Have you had any luck cleaning/refreshing them, or do you just buy a lot?

I have one and really like it. I clean it in warm soapy water and dry with a lint free rag which makes it good as new again.

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On 6/28/2024 at 4:23 AM, durant7 said:

Sea-Gull has landed.  Runs even better DU.  +13s/d, 324 amp, 0.1ms BE.  Crazy.  And the goal is for a newb to improve on that?   I get it.  Take apart, put back together, test and repeat. 

Until you have a means of cleaning the parts of the disassembled movement and the right lubricants to lubricate it, focus on disassembling it and reassembling it and having it run. 

You can also practice particular tasks, like placing the wheels of the train (centre wheel, third wheel, fourth wheel and escape wheel), placing the bridges and getting all the pivots in their respect jewel holes. 

You can practice installing the balance cock & balance wheel onto the mainplate, with the pivots in their jewel holes. 

Once you have an ultrasonic cleaner and cleaning fluids, or means to clean the parts by hand, you can practice disassembly, cleaning, reassembly and lubrication, with the ultimate goal of it running better than when it first arrived.

Once you’re oiling is on point (right amount of the right oils in the right places). these movements will run better than when they were delivered to you and it’s really satisfying to achieve that.

In terms of having the right lubricants, at a minimum I suggest you need 9010 for the balance and fast moving pivots, HP1300 for the slower turning wheels, arbours, mainspring and keyless works.

Then you need something to oil the pallet fork jewels (the entry and exit stones, not the pivots).

I suggest that you buy some Moebius 9415 for this. You can use 941 on these slower beat movements, but you’ll need 9415 once you want to service a faster beat movements (28,800 and up). 

You can use 9415 on all Swiss lever escapements, regardless of beat rate. If you buy this you’re covered for high beat and slower beat watches.

As you progress you may decide to use a wider variety of greases and oils, each better suited to their specific use, such as specific greases for keyless works and braking grease for automatic mainspring barrels, but 9010, HP1300 and some 9415 is sufficient to reach the goal of having this ST36 run better than when it arrived. 
 

If your $12 blue box demagnetiser didn’t come with instructions, be sure to find out how to use it properly, or you might end up magnetising instead of demagnetising things. There are plenty of demonstration videos for these on YouTube.

Hope this helps,

Mark

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On 6/28/2024 at 7:13 AM, JohnR725 said:

Can I get a better picture of how your holding the movement of the timing machine movement holder? Something doesn't look right

JohnR725, It sounds like I am about to be educated.  The ST36 came with a sub second hand as well as a minute hand.  No hour hand.  I put it in dial up with a small space to ensure nothing comes in contact with the microphone holder.  If this is poor form, let me know.

Impressive that folks order from Cousins when in the USA.  Must have good service, selection and quality.  I think I need to start practicing.  I stand at the threshold.

Mercurial (Mark).  Thank you for taking the time to provide a personal response to my journey.  It was very helpful.  As mentioned above, I have all the tools, organizers, parts sorters, range of magnification and even some 9010 for some future date.  The ST36 sits in front of me.  My tools in front of me.  And work, month end, quarter end and a non US customer advising me today, Sunday, he will be flying in from India for his first DC visit on July 3rd!  Laugh or cry I am not sure.  Flying home on the 3rd is not my idea of fun!  My holiday was going to be my ST36 disassembly and reassembly.  Odd vacation huh?  Read I want to walk over the threshold but I don't want to be distracted.  Something only I can figure out.  I don't want to try to put it back together 30 days later...so it sits ticking.  Time, ironic huh.

Blue box out of box, no directions.  My magnetized Dumonts ready.  How can Stainless Dumonts get magnetized?  My other spendy pair of Dumonts say "Anti-magnetic" so...well...learning.  Even Cheap Dumonts have their limitations.  I will do some more research on best way to maximize the "hobbyist demagnetizer".  Until I do, I have only one pair of tweezers.  

My one question is, I have not heard of HP1300.  Or, as a novice I have missed it.  I did buy 9010 as it seemed a no brainer.  At some point in my journey 9010 is a must have.  HP1300 was not on my #2 list.  Did I just miss that?  I thought some grease for Keyless works and metal on metal rubbing was next.  And by "fast moving" pivots. An area I need to better understand.  Fast Moving could be subjective.  Is there a rule of thumb? 1 revolution per minute of less is slow? 1 RPM or more is considered "fast moving"?  It would appear on video 9010 is on all pivots up to the hour wheel which I would not consider "fast moving".  Again, novice so I may not have realized what I was hearing/seeing.

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12 minutes ago, durant7 said:

JohnR725, It sounds like I am about to be educated.  The ST36 came with a sub second hand as well as a minute hand.  No hour hand.  I put it in dial up with a small space to ensure nothing comes in contact with the microphone holder.  If this is poor form, let me know.

I find a lot of people are clueless over how to hold things in the timing machine  microphone. Then when the Chinese clone their timing machine microphone they didn't do quite as nice job as the Swiss did for instance here's a comparison between us witschi microphone and your timing machine.

image.png.8236f5405324d83f1b1f3d8e3809d2f2.png

Even though it isn't quite as nice it still work so here's an example in a microphone just like yours of how you're supposed to hold the movements if you would like to Be able to move the regulator as it's going to a little difficult the way you're doing it

image.png.3093d65d9dbbc115d7effe50d3cbf80c.png

Then occasionally see people holding a watch in the movement holder then put a timing machine the problem is the watch really has to make contact with the outer metal part as that's where the sensor is.

1 hour ago, durant7 said:

maximize the "hobbyist demagnetizer".

It's been covered somewhere else in the group As you're not the first asked the question how to properly use it.

But yes if you use a wrong you'll magnetize everything

1 hour ago, durant7 said:

I have not heard of HP1300.  Or, as a novice I have missed it.  I did buy 9010 as it seemed a no brainer.  At some point in my journey 9010 is a must have.  HP1300 was not on my #2 list.  Did I just miss that?  I thought some grease for Keyless works and metal on metal rubbing was next

The world of lubrication and continuous bickering. I like 9010 no-brainer I guess I don't have a brain because I don't use 9010. Then you don't need the HP 1300 if you're using it on the keyless as you can use grease. Because technically if you're going to use it on the keyless you need the epilam to keep It from spreading all across the universe.

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