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15 minutes ago, Terrinecold said:

I cleaned all the parts except balance assembly and pallet fork

15 minutes ago, Terrinecold said:

have not taken apart and oiled the shock protection and cap jewels

Hi @Terrinecold,

We may have missed that info above, but as you can see that's pretty much the most fundamental thing to do. Great lesson learnt, I suppose 🙂

To be clear, the timegrapher results at the end your last post are also after lubricating balance jewels and pallet fork, right?

Cheers

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7 hours ago, Knebo said:

Hi @Terrinecold,

We may have missed that info above, but as you can see that's pretty much the most fundamental thing to do. Great lesson learnt, I suppose 🙂

To be clear, the timegrapher results at the end your last post are also after lubricating balance jewels and pallet fork, right?

Cheers

First I have lubricated the pallet fork pallets/escape wheel teeth.  I did not lubricate the pallet fork pivot jewel as I am pretty sure it is considered to be a no no.

No they are only after fixing the coils of the hairspring sticking to each other after the first wash.  After a dip in IPA and most important making sure it was completely dry so no sticking due to capillarity the result is the one I showed.

By the way my (probably flawed) understanding was that lack of lubrication for the balance jewel would show up more after a usage with too much wear and possibly immediately with too low amplitude but wouldn't show up with crazy reading like I have seen.

 

 

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20 minutes ago, Terrinecold said:

I did not lubricate the pallet fork pivot jewel as I am pretty sure it is considered to be a no no.

Absolutely correct. 

 

21 minutes ago, Terrinecold said:

most important making sure it was completely dry so no sticking due to capillarity the result is the one I showed

Yes. If (too much) oil is dissolved in the cleaning fluid and the solvent/IPA then evaporates, it can leave a thin and surprisingly sticky oil residue everywhere. And hairspring coils are very sensitive to that. I learnt this the hard way, too. 

 

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14 hours ago, Knebo said:

Yes. If (too much) oil is dissolved in the cleaning fluid and the solvent/IPA then evaporates, it can leave a thin and surprisingly sticky oil residue everywhere. And hairspring coils are very sensitive to that. I learnt this the hard way, too. 

Yes that was the problem. The sticky coils. I have it on video too. I plan to do the editing and video uploading this Weekend (today is work + rock climbing not much time for watchmaking)

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Excellent reading as I have a ST36 coming my way for practice purposes.  I am keen to read what the experts say re your balance cleaning.  I too read Hexane is the lower cost solution to one dip.  And, I read IPA and shellac, ok if you make it a brief exposure.  I am unclear why the hexane left you with touching hair spring?

And excellent work of trouble shooting and reassembly.  Is your current timegrapher result better, same or worse than when you first received it?

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One of the things to try to remember is learning is usually slow. There's nothing wrong with taking your shiny new Chinese clone and just disassembling it looking at all the parts. Putting it back together again and then repeating the process. Have you ever wondered why people go to schools in general are really fast? What give think they do all day long there practicing usually on the same watches over and over and over again practicing new skills as they go on. But typically and groups like this you disassemble at one time you clean it yet oil let you put it back together or whatever order you do those things in and then you want to move on and you really should practice on the same watch for while. Until you get really really good at it.

 

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Posted (edited)

@JohnR725 indeed that is understood and what I am trying to do.  I am still editing (cutting off part where nothing happens and adding text) the reassembly video then I'll post it for comment on what I should improve or what I am doing fine.

@durant7 thank you very much.  I am a beginner and not an expert on timegrapher, I'll post the before and after.  I think the after is a tiny bit better. Because the amplitude is better.  You'll see that the Rate is also better but that is because I actually spent time regulating it.  I lost a lot of time trying to do that using the swan neck regulator but the truth is that the one on my ST36 is not really working for 2 reasons (if I understand that mechanism correctly): 1 the spring is not the right shape, it should always be pushing against the extension of the regulator, 2) the screw is not the right length, by screwing it in you should be able to move the regulator way more.  I spent quite some time fiddling with it (for someone inexperienced like me, screwing the screw which is on the side is difficult as it is small and I can't see the slot in the microscope due to its position, I should use a loupe but I am not good with those).  Then I gave up and moved the regulator directly.

swanneck.thumb.png.64e78b2c779529ad66fa66b8ff415c6c.png

Before working on the movement 2 orientations
IMG_0057.thumb.jpeg.e97d15694e0c8fb3076c95f8cf8a4702.jpegIMG_0056.thumb.jpeg.584cfb9b13775598a4e58032eb0e9ed8.jpeg
After  only one orientation because but the other was similar just didn’t take a picture

IMG_0068.thumb.jpeg.7a624cf309a5ea191116ec0c81e644c9.jpeg

Edited by Terrinecold
added picture of the non functioning (decorative) swan neck
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Here is the promised reassembly video.

Like the first one I don't have sound but I have put some text explaining what I am doing (not for the readers of this forum but for my family and friends with whom I'll share it to try to explain my weird new hobby).

All criticism is welcome.

There is one thing which surprised me a lot as I was doing the lubrication trying to follow the spec sheet.  I was expecting to put some grease on a number of keyless work parts (like on the yoke, on the stem square section, etc...) but most of those place were recommending oil so I did that but I would appreciate any opinion on where to  put grease vs oil.

I also plan to oil the shock system and cap jewel this evening and I'll try to video it to.

 

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4 minutes ago, Terrinecold said:

There is one thing which surprised me a lot as I was doing the lubrication trying to follow the spec sheet.  I was expecting to put some grease on a number of keyless work parts (like on the yoke, on the stem square section, etc...) but most of those place were recommending oil so I did that but I would appreciate any opinion on where to  put grease vs oil.

One of the problems with followingtech sheets for lubrication isyou have to follow them exactly. Plus they actually have to have all of the instructions in the spec sheet which often times they do not. Which means if you using oil in a location where grease would be preferred you're supposed to use epilam to prevent it from running away.

Oh and if you really want to get confused over lubrication look at multiple generations of Technical documentation specifying lubrication and will find it becomes quite confusing because in the past the use really really really thin oil. At least now they're up to something heavier but you still need to use epilam.

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Good point.  And I have not bought epilam or the famously expensive related bottle yet.

So your advice for next time I take appart and clean and reassemble this movement (either tomorrow or next week) would be to use oil on rotating parts and grease on sliding part as I have seen being advised in various videos?

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3 hours ago, Terrinecold said:

o your advice for next time I take appart and clean and reassemble this movement (either tomorrow or next week) would be to use oil on rotating parts and grease on sliding part as I have seen being advised in various videos?

yes that's typically what I do although I will use grease on things like barrel arbor's things with high pressure that revolve slowly.

yes if you look at enough tech sheets over time you'll find lots of very peculiar things. For instance I'm attaching a tech sheet notice they're using grease on the keyless parts? Then for oil for everything else using my favorite oil 9020 including on the balance jewels. I wonder what they know that the rest of the Swiss do not? Then zero indication of using epilam although one of the problems with epilam is a lot of times the watch companies did use it in the past and they just didn't put it in the tech sheets. Although sometimes they had been a lot of the companies do this the supplemental seeds spell out all the details and the information is never found in the tech sheet itself. Which means even if you fall with the tech sheet says he may not be doing the supplemental stuff does not referenced at all in the tech sheet.

 

12p.pdf

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