Shipping damage

[spectre6000]

I ordered a pair of movements from an eBay seller out of Switzerland a few weeks ago. Top grades 7750 and SW200-1. They arrived Friday, and the 7750 was crushed in its case. The oscillating rotor was jammed up and lodged into the top of the plastic case, and that was then down over the lower half of the case at an angle.

You can see the case is crooked, but looking into the case at the oscillating weight, you can see it bent up at a matching angle. It did not come out without a fight, as there was no way to get above it to get it out more cleanly.

I immediately contacted the seller to this effect, who asked if the movement still worked. I told him I'd look into it that evening. At this point, I wound it by hand, and saw that the balance kicked off. Rates weren't bad, but beat error and amplitude were poor. I carefully removed it from the case, and noticed that one of the small chronograph hands was missing (assumed knocked off some time during shipping). It's possible it escaped while I was removing it from the shipping packaging, or possibly while I was prizing it from the plastic movement holder, but I've not been able to locate it. Given the confines of the movement holder case and the abuse it clearly took, it is likely somewhere inside...

Loose from the holder, the rotor moves as it should, but is bent a bit, and the bearing is much louder than a 7750 should be. Assumed damaged either during crushing or extraction. On the timegrapher, amplitude was as low as 222°, and beat error was as high as 0.3ms in one of the directional crown positions, but the best rate wasn't above maybe 240°, and I don't think beat error bested 0.1ms. I verified lift angle was correct here as well. Definitely not acceptable for a brand new top grade movement. I demagnetized it, wound it some more, and no change.

Crushing the package would mess up the rotor, but shouldn't do much else. The missing hand, beat error, and low amplitude tell me something else is going on, and that it probably took at least one serious whack. I threw the SW200-1 on the timegrapher, and it's showing low amplitude as well. Lots of things can contribute to low amplitude readings, and lots of things can be jostled out of adjustment with a hard enough smack that I stopped there. I informed the seller accordingly. Two days later, no response.

So... Am I off base rejecting a brand new top grade 7750 with beat error and amplitude like that? Ditto with the identically abused, but better faring top grade SW200-1? If I haven't heard from the seller by Friday, I'm going to assume he's not going to respond, and will file a claim with eBay. Or at least that's the plan if someone doesn't talk some sense into me otherwise... It's some $800 worth of movement, and not something I can just flush.

Edited June 19, 2024 by spectre6000

[Jon]

If there is any damage, which clearly there is because it was packed badly, then I wouldn't hesitate getting a full refund and returning it.

I wouldn't 'make do.' This is a top grade movement worth many hundreds. If the seller is ignorant enough to send a watch movements this way, then it isn't going to go well for them.

[AndyGSi]

I think you're well within your rights just returning them for a refund.

Be warned though as I'm in the UK and recently bought a watch from the states that arrived damaged.

I packed and returned via the eBay return process but got a report back from eBay saying the box had arrived empty and therefore I wouldn't be getting my refund. After this there's no way I'd ever consider dealing internationally with eBay.

Had you considered using Cousins here in the UK?

https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/eta-mechanical-movements?code=7750LP

[spectre6000]

Cousins doesn't sell top grade (at least not to me), and their price for elabore is considerably more than I paid for the top grade from the eBay seller... If you can find a source that will sell me a top grade movement (both the 7750 and the SW200-1) at a reasonable price, that's probably where I'm headed next. The seller hasn't responded. If I don't hear from him by Saturday, I'm going to file a claim with eBay. I've tested the movements, and sent multiple messages. Not much else I can do.

Edited June 20, 2024 by spectre6000

[spectre6000]

Finally heard back. He offered a refund if I send it back. Shipping to the US tends to be cheap; shipping from tends to be expensive. Hopefully it's not too bad. Also hopefully I can still get the movements I need...

[spectre6000]

I requested replacements rather than a refund, and the seller has gone completely silent. Very, very frustrating. I'll be sending them back as soon as I can find the bandwidth (baby coming Sunday, and hopefully not sooner), and once I get my refund, I'll leave a rare scathing review. I need to track down TOP grade ETA 7750 and TOP grade Selitta SW200-1. Sounds like I have a bead on a 7750, but the SW200-1 is eluding me. Any leads?

::hits post:: ::receives email from eBay re: seller finally responding:: Looks like replacements are happening. That is a relief. Hopefully that all goes smoothly and quickly.

Still worthwhile to track down sources for TOP grade movements. Probably worth a dedicated thread though.

Edited June 25, 2024 by spectre6000

[Jon]

I hope the baby with its sunshine it will bring to your lives will make this problem with sourcing decent movements a distant memory!

Have you tried making an account with Sellita and buying the top grade from them. I would also go down the route of buying an SW500 rather than a 7750. I know the 7750 is a better movement marginally in my book, but parts for the SW500 are widely available and in five to ten years 7750 parts are going to be in unicorn poo territory, trust me!

[Neverenoughwatches]

On 6/21/2024 at 12:43 PM, spectre6000 said:

Finally heard back. He offered a refund if I send it back. Shipping to the US tends to be cheap; shipping from tends to be expensive. Hopefully it's not too bad. Also hopefully I can still get the movements I need...

Ebay has always fallen on my side in cases of refunds due to seller faults. Here in the UK the seller must issue you a return label so you can send it back at no cost to yourself. If the seller refuses, argues or does not respond then ebay can force a refund to go through and you can also decide to keep the item if you so wish. I hope Ebay's policy is the same for you in the States.

[spectre6000]

17 hours ago, Jon said:

I hope the baby with its sunshine it will bring to your lives will make this problem with sourcing decent movements a distant memory!

Have you tried making an account with Sellita and buying the top grade from them. I would also go down the route of buying an SW500 rather than a 7750. I know the 7750 is a better movement marginally in my book, but parts for the SW500 are widely available and in five to ten years 7750 parts are going to be in unicorn poo territory, trust me!

I haven't tried making an account with them, no. I would be shocked if they'd sell me anything in any reasonable quantities (one) as just some schmuck out here fooling around in the mountains somewhere. 

As for ETA vs. Selitta, that's the reason for the SW200-1 instead of the equally available 2824-2. I just haven't been able to find anyone that would sell me a single SW500 TOP grade at any price. I considered a La Joux Perret that has all the same external measurements as a 7750, but it lacked the day function (required for the dial I have), and was a lower grade/accuracy. Also, I was pretty sure the SW500 and 7750 parts were almost entirely interchangeable re: future proofing. That's the case with the SW200-1/2824-2 save for a very few components last I looked. 

[Knebo]

On 6/25/2024 at 3:06 PM, spectre6000 said:

I requested replacements rather than a refund, and the seller has gone completely silent

If the seller has already disappointed you once, why would you ask for replacements instead of the refund (and closing that chapter)?

 

On 6/19/2024 at 3:03 PM, spectre6000 said:

beat error, and low amplitude tell me something else is going on, and that it probably took at least one serious whack. I threw the SW200-1 on the timegrapher, and it's showing low amplitude as well

I don't know if these were sold to you as "new" or "NOS / new old stock". If the latter, and I-don't-know-how-many-years-old, they may need service anyways, no?

 

 

[spectre6000]

23 hours ago, Knebo said:

If the seller has already disappointed you once, why would you ask for replacements instead of the refund (and closing that chapter)?

 

I don't know if these were sold to you as "new" or "NOS / new old stock". If the latter, and I-don't-know-how-many-years-old, they may need service anyways, no?

 

 

New. If you know of any sources for TOP grade 7750 (or SW500) and SW200-1, please share. Seriously, I made a thread for that exact purpose as part of this, because I can't find them. Low grades all day long, sure. I'm after the top grades though. I may even spring for chronometer grades if I could find them.

[Knebo]

Yes, I saw your thread. I didn't have an answer, so didn't respond there.

But your seller doesn't seem very reliable... if he's the only on in the world that you could find, maybe there is a reason.

[spectre6000]

Final update on this: I sent the damaged movements back, and he sent replacements. Didn't wait for the first pair to arrive, and actually sent the replacements before I was able to even get the first set in the mail. Not really here or there, just a detail. The replacements arrived in much better shape and well within spec. In fact, the 7750 seems to have been hand picked as an especially tight example. It's reading +/-1.5s/d. WELL within chronometer spec. 

Looking back, I see I neglected to mention the seller's reason for non-response. Small shop, and he was flying solo. Couldn't keep up with everything. After he got back to me that most recent time (I assume the other shop helper had returned), responses were very timely. Ultimately, this worked out well. I will likely buy more from the seller, as he has stuff I haven't seen elsewhere and at pretty decent prices to boot.