Smiths Enfield Main Plate Cleaning

[BertsBoy]

Hello Clockmakers, I recently acquired a Smiths Enfield chiming/striking clock – movement marked K6A – I’m quite well equipped for watch repair/restoration but, apart from one of my Dad’s old carriage clocks, I’ve never tackled a fairly complicated clock before; complicated to my untrained eye at any rate.  I’ve dismantled the clock and am in the, evidently long winded, process of cleaning all the parts.  I have an L&R watch cleaning machine but decided against using it before pre-cleaning all the gubbins, which appears to have been sprayed liberally with Castrol GTX!  The pre-cleaning involved IPA, then Elma 9:1 and an ultrasonic.  The wheels and small parts have come out very nicely indeed but the plate which keeps the music roll and hammer assembly together has clearly been lacquered which has peeled off like skin after too long in the sun.  It appears that the main plates have been similarly treated (presumably at the factory?).  Not wanting to cause any more damage to lacquered parts I wonder if someone could let me know the best way to clean the main plates?

I have had a look on the forum for answers but it seems the preferred approach involves ammoniated solutions which is what Elma 9:1 includes.  The IPA appeared not to bother the lacquer but maybe it softened it before the Elma and ultrasonic finished the job? All ideas and comments gratefully received and many thanks in advance.

Martin.

[oldhippy]

Horolene clock cleaner is what I recommend and Steel wool extra-fine 0000. That is what I used on lacquered plates and parts. Depending how bad the parts are and what I see it is bad will depend how long you need to soak the parts, its a trial and error. Make sure all the parts are covered in cleaner if not it will leave a tide mark and you will have a hell of a job to remove it. You can then rinse in warm water and dry with a hair dryer. I hope you have a clock mainspring winder to remove the springs and put them back in. You might need the bushing tools and the bushes for worn holes, also a clockmakers lathe to tidy up pivots, needle files and an assortment of emery sticks. A bottle of Windles Clock Oil is the best you can get and clock oiler. A chime is not the best way to start. A simple timepiece is the place to start then a strike and then move onto a chime. I can help you get it back together in fact there are a few on here that can also do that

[BertsBoy]

Thanks very much for your advice OH.  Will the 0000 steel wool not remove the lacquer or is that the aim?  If so, should I re-lacquer and with what?  I did invest in an Ollie Baker type mainspring winder when I tackled the (striking), carriage clock - seems to work fine and feels relatively safe.  With regard to the re-bushing; there seem to be at least 4 which need doing and 2 others which I should probably do now rather than later.  My watchmaker's jewelling tool has reamers up to around 3mm which might be ok for the smaller bushes but I need to get my head around finding the correct centres and I have a selection of clock bushes from Dad's estate.  I think I'll need something like a rose cutter to make sure the bushes are flush but maybe you have a better idea?  I have an 8mm watchmaker's lathe and a Jacot with burnishers for the polishing.  Needle files, broaches, emery sticks and diamontine are in plentiful supply here  So I think I have most of the tools required but the skillset is probably lacking!.

Is Windles ok for all the oiling points?  I generally have to use five different viscosities on most watches.  I used Moebius 1300 on the carriage clock and 9010 on its balance jewels and contrate wheel bearings.

Thank you so much for your reply and offer of help - I'm sure I'll need it as it all goes back together in due course.

Martin

[Dell]

Hi Martin

I restore torsion clocks usually all brass anything with ammonia will remove lacquer if you don’t want to remove it then wash in washing up liquid rinse in isopropyl dry with air drier, you can re centre a bush then re bush by hand , I have only ever replaced one torsion clock bushing because they don’t wear but I have bushed other clocks by hand although if I need to bush anything nowadays I use the mill , just make sure you broach the hole square so the new bush is inserted straight, you can make any bushing you need with your lathe, have a look at this.

Dell

 

I should have said that if you want to remove the lacquer and re do it you would need to peg all the bushings so no lacquer get in and use a decent lacquer for brass, I use Mohawks lacquer for brass.

Dell

[oldhippy]

I never used spray on lacquer as when it hits the parts it can leave marks. I always used  Horolacq Clear with a fine flat artist brush. That is how I used to lacquer Carriage clocks not just the movements but also the brass cases.   As you are just starting you can buy ready made bushes, get yourself a set of broach they are five sided so they make a nice round hole, just make sure you don't broach out too much. The bush should just fit inside the hole. I always made my own but for you that is another step. There is a lot more than to broaching but you are just starting 

[Dell]

I have never had a problem with it leaving marks but I never use lacquer on plates, if the lacquer is good I just clean if not then I remove it but early movements are not lacquered I use Renaissance wax on most movement parts , but I polish and lacquer base, pillars and pendulum if customer wants it done.

Dell

 

[oldhippy]

That was a nice video. Good to see you using a mask. I have just subscribed to your channel. What I have used drys in around 2 minutes. 

[Dell]

Thanks, My trade was a coachbuilder so have always worn a mask when painting, it was usually 2K then, Mohawk lacquer is dry enough to handle carefully in about 15 minutes but I usually leave it a couple of hours.

Dell

[BertsBoy]

Thanks chaps for the advice.  I think what I'm going to do is Horolene and steel wool the small plate I've already spoiled (as my earlier picture shows), and give it a dose of Mohawk as per Dell's excellent video (I've also 'liked and subscribed' Dell  ).  The main plates look clean but I'll give them a careful bath in paraffin or something that won't attack the lacquer after I've done (attempted to do), the re-bushing required.  Er... unless either of you think that's a really bad idea!

Dell, thanks for the video showing how to find the original centres.  I now understand the principle and will do some practice on an unidentified clock plate I've found amongst Dad's effects before risking anything on the Smiths Enfield.

O.H., I probably didn't mention that I'm an amateur, but well trained, watchmaker so, in terms of broaches for example, it'll be nice to use some of the larger ones I've never had to use before    I do have a good selection of ready made bushes but will be able to turn any that I don't already have on my lovely IME lathe.  I suspect the real fun will begin when I have to get everything synchronised ultimately!

Thanks both for your interest and encouragement.

Martin

[Dell]

Thanks for subscribing Martin if you have problems setting everything up have a look here.

https://mb.nawcc.org/wiki/Encyclopedia-Subjects/Clock-Repair/Chime-Clock-Basics

Dell

[BertsBoy]

@oldhippy and @Dell A quick update:  after some re-bushing, a lot of cleaning and a sanity check with the synchronisation, I've managed to get the clock working really nicely.  It's keeping excellent time and chiming/striking exactly when and where it ought to be.  Emboldened by this early success, I'm now working on another one; this time with Westminster and Whittington chimes.  Thank you both very much indeed for all your hints. tips, advice and encouragement.

Martin

[oldhippy]

Good luck with your next project. We are here if you need help and congrats on sorting out your last clock. You should try a French strike. I'm sure you do well with one of those there is more to do but what satisfaction you will have.