Homemade diy cleaner, dangerous carboot buy.

[Neverenoughwatches]

Good even watch folk, picking the brains of any electrical engineers we have out there.  I bought a kitchen cake mixer that sits in a stand today with a view of turning it into a cleaning machine. Plugged it in and smoke poured out of it, I've found a very poorly part inside, no idea what it is , what it does or why it exploded. Please help i am totally crap when it comes to identifying electric motor bits . The armature runs smooth and there is plenty of meat on the carbon brushes, maybe just had some damp get into that part. I think it would make a good diy cleaner if i can fix it. 

[BertsBoy]

It's probably a K2 rated capacitor which will be connected across Live and Neutral.  It's there to stop the motor acting like a small transmitter and interfering with the neighbours' radios.  The machine will work without it and the wretched things often let out the magic smoke when they're getting on a bit.  It's value probably 0.1uF (also sometimes written 100nF).  Try searching RS or Farnell etc and see if you can find a replacement/equivalent.

[AndyGSi]

Yes it's a 250V 0.1uF X Rated Interference Capacitor for reasons as above.

[Neverenoughwatches]

23 minutes ago, BertsBoy said:

It's probably a K2 rated capacitor which will be connected across Live and Neutral.  It's there to stop the motor acting like a small transmitter and interfering with the neighbours' radios.  The machine will work without it and the wretched things often let out the magic smoke when they're getting on a bit.  It's value probably 0.1uF (also sometimes written 100nF).  Try searching RS or Farnell etc and see if you can find a replacement/equivalent.

Appreciate the reply, not a part that the motor needs to run?so if i cut that off then it should stlll work without it ?

Thanks fellas i owe you a pint each, you gave me the confidence to have a go. All working great , I'll wait for the neighbours to knock on my door to ask if i know anything about why their tv reception is playing up . Thanks again, the forum is full of helpful  knowledgeable guys like yourselves.  

[Neverenoughwatches]

Temporary measure until i get some rod connectors.

[BertsBoy]

Love it   I spent £700 on my L&R Vari-Matic.  DOH!

[Neverenoughwatches]

9 minutes ago, BertsBoy said:

Love it   I spent £700 on my L&R Vari-Matic.  DOH!

Yeah but i bet your looks the business in your watchcave . , the old voltage regulator does a great job of speed controlling this, 1 off 5x6mm rod connector and i will have a bit more poshdom in the room . Thanks again for your help today i was all set on taking it back and wrapping it round the seller head for filling my kitchen with smoke , the smell was .

[RichardHarris123]

Is it selenium?  That's meant to stink. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

15 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Is it selenium?  That's meant to stink. 

Not sure Rich but it was bloody rank, i can still smell it in the kitchen and it still whiffs out a bit when i run the motor.

[AndyGSi]

24 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Is it selenium?  That's meant to stink. 

Selenium was the original rectifier material and did have a terrible smell.

 

[HectorLooi]

That is a metallized film capacitor, probably polyester or polycarbonate.

My 50 year old Kenwood Chef blew it's motor run capacitor many years ago. Sounded like an explosion. Scared the heck out of my mum. I replaced it with an oil capacitor and it has been running fine since.

I've had quite a bit of experience with blown EMI suppression capacitors. Just clean up all the burnt bits from the pcb and replace it with a X2 rated capacitor. If the pcb is burnt, scrape away all the carbonized bits, as carbon can conduct electricity and short the circuit.

[Neverenoughwatches]

44 minutes ago, HectorLooi said:

That is a metallized film capacitor, probably polyester or polycarbonate.

My 50 year old Kenwood Chef blew it's motor run capacitor many years ago. Sounded like an explosion. Scared the heck out of my mum. I replaced it with an oil capacitor and it has been running fine since.

I've had quite a bit of experience with blown EMI suppression capacitors. Just clean up all the burnt bits from the pcb and replace it with a X2 rated capacitor. If the pcb is burnt, scrape away all the carbonized bits, as carbon can conduct electricity and short the circuit.

It fizzy and fizzled when I turned it on, then wafts of smoke filled an area of my kitchen before i turned it off again . It seems to be running just fine without it. 

[rjenkinsgb]

It is (or was) a "RIFA" X cap by the look of it - they are renowned for catastrophic failures!

Search google for "rifa capacitor explosion" and you will see vast number of mentions of these.

Or see this for brief example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIFA_AB#Legacy

I would advise adding a modern 0.1uF X cap to limit interference emission from the brushes.

[AndyGSi]

This maybe a good post as a newbie to ask what the position is regarding offering things on the forum?

[RichardHarris123]

16 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

This maybe a good post as a newbie to ask what the position is regarding offering things on the forum?

You can offer things but if money is involved (including postage) it should be by PM. I have offered a few things gratis in the past.

[AndyGSi]

Just now, RichardHarris123 said:

You can offer things but if money is involved (including postage) it should be by PM. I have offered a few things gratis in the past.

Thanks for the quick response.

@Neverenoughwatches if you can solder and want a replacement then just PM me your details and I'll get you one in the post.

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 hours ago, AndyGSi said:

Thanks for the quick response.

@Neverenoughwatches if you can solder and want a replacement then just PM me your details and I'll get you one in the post.

Thanks Andy yes i can solder, mostly plumbing, i can just about silver solder,not always pretty though.  Is it important for the machine ? my room is in the far corner of my house, miles away from any neighbours and i dont watch TV and only me in the house anyway. I got impatient and finshed off the mini mesh basket carrier and soldered a mixer whisk to a stud connector bolt. The machine as far as i could google is a 1/10 hp that equates to 75watts which means i can run it on a fan speed controller that can manage 300 watts. The machine works a treat and the controller keeps things quiet when working in the room. This is what diy appliance conversions are all about, one cleaning machine and one part dryer. Total cost a whopping  19 quid. Breakdown = carboot mixer £5, 2x cousins cleaning baskets £3 , 1x  carboot hairdryer £1 , 1x carboot microphone stand £2 , 1 fan speed controller £7 , and about £1 for the bolts connectors etc. Lets round it up to 20 quid just for the hell of it. The plastic tub and green dust cover is just for storage. Come on guys if you haven't got the cash for a cleaning machine and dryer then knock something up, if i can do it anybody can do it.

[AndyGSi]

Motor will run better and longer with the cap fitted.

[Neverenoughwatches]

20 hours ago, rjenkinsgb said:

It is (or was) a "RIFA" X cap by the look of it - they are renowned for catastrophic failures!

Search google for "rifa capacitor explosion" and you will see vast number of mentions of these.

Or see this for brief example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIFA_AB#Legacy

I would advise adding a modern 0.1uF X cap to limit interference emission from the brushes.

Thanks Rob, is there any other rating or type i need to know about, from the bits I've read about them they reduce brush arching which helps the machine to run cooler. I run it fairly slowly using a voltage regulator i would guess about 400- 500 rpm, the motor seems to spin ok without it. Theres loads of these old 70's machines on ebay, over 50 years old and still going strong, from an era when known makes were put together from quality parts and the manufacturing city was pronouncable . They're great appliances to adapt for this use and the current generation dont want em fir two reasons, they dont cook and if they do they want a modern machine.

[rjenkinsgb]

1 hour ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

is there any other rating or type i need to know about

Any X2 rated cap around 0.1uF and 275V AC or higher should be fine. 

If this keeps the selection, just pick anything of suitable physical size to fit in place of the original:

https://www.mouser.co.uk/c/passive-components/capacitors/safety-capacitors/?capacitance=0.1 uF&product=Safety Film Capacitors&safety rating=X2&voltage rating ac=275 VAC~~350 VAC&instock=y&rp=passive-components%2Fcapacitors%2Fsafety-capacitors|~Voltage Rating AC

You could get it from RS, Farnell, CPC or whichever component supplier is easiest & cheapest - some places are now adding steep minimum order charges..

[Neverenoughwatches]

2 hours ago, rjenkinsgb said:

Any X2 rated cap around 0.1uF and 275V AC or higher should be fine. 

If this keeps the selection, just pick anything of suitable physical size to fit in place of the original:

https://www.mouser.co.uk/c/passive-components/capacitors/safety-capacitors/?capacitance=0.1 uF&product=Safety Film Capacitors&safety rating=X2&voltage rating ac=275 VAC~~350 VAC&instock=y&rp=passive-components%2Fcapacitors%2Fsafety-capacitors|~Voltage Rating AC

You could get it from RS, Farnell, CPC or whichever component supplier is easiest & cheapest - some places are now adding steep minimum order charges..

Thats great rob thank you. The ones i was looking at cost more than i paid for the machine , i know as Yorkshiremen we are tight but that one goes against our cardinal rule of " we dont pay more to fix something than we paid for it "

[Neverenoughwatches]

Final mod to the cleaner.  The lack of room under the machine meant that i had to swap out the cleaning jars for an empty jar so i could spin off fluid inbetween cleaner and rinses. Simple solution to this was to drop a hole in the base, add another one and raise it up on some feet for the extra height needed. This way the mixer tilts back and forward and clears the edge of the jar as it exits and enters. An mdf plate slips under the jar so the fluid can cover the basket.  Very simple and effective,  no messing with knobs to raise and lower baskets. A very easy appliance adaptation that has provided me with a good controllable cleaner for under 20 quid.  Lets get making something useful chaps .

[rossjackson01]

Oh gosh! Would I like to do the same? Would really enjoy such a project. And, within my capabilities. But. Big But. No room for such an item to be stored. Dreams are made of this post. Long may our members do DIY.

[Neverenoughwatches]

19 minutes ago, rossjackson01 said:

Oh gosh! Would I like to do the same? Would really enjoy such a project. And, within my capabilities. But. Big But. No room for such an item to be stored. Dreams are made of this post. Long may our members do DIY.

Thats a shame Ross, i know you'd make a fantastic job of it. Doesn't actually take up a great deal of room, it measures a mere 11" x 7". My missus found something similar in Argos for , 14 quid, you cant go wrong for that price. My kids still owe me a father's day pressie , I've just named it .  Here are some different jars that i picked up, ideal size, pound shop £1.40 each . The clever bit is getting the right clearance so the basket holder scoops in past the edge of the glass jar, thats a combination of holder height, holder spindle reach ( so it drops into the jar at a steep angle ) and the size of the jar mouth. Its all doable Ross, all doable. If you decide to have a go, give us a shout , I'll  talk you through how the basket is made up, and the bits needed, you're looking at about a fiver max for that bit, though you need to solder or find someone to solder the mixer whisk to a 6mm connector bolt.

[rossjackson01]

Never

Aaagh. Stop it. Argos?