Stuck in a Repair Scam

[Zakalwe]

I've been stuck with an issue for a while now and am helping someone can help me get unstuck.

I have an 2010 Oris Meistertaucher, reference 01 649 7541 7164-Set and the winding crown thread has been crossed. The only quotes I've been given for fixing it are at least half the value of the watch or more. In addition to this, even though the watch has just been serviced ($400), authorized dealers who can get hold of the part refuse to replace the crown (which is a very simple operation if you have a crown) without charging me for another service (another $400), which is an obvious scam. I'm familiar with all of the nonsense arguments claiming it has to be serviced every time the case is open, blah, blah, which are simply designed to fool laypeople into being scammed. It's a disgraceful practice, but seems widespread.

I know I can replace the crown/tube if I obtain the part. Done it in other watches; simple.

I am being held to ransom by those able to get hold of the part, but won't sell it to me.

Can anyone help?

Thanks.

[Nucejoe]

Hate to be the one bringing you the bad news.

 If it got damaged after Oris serviced the watch, there is a chance pieces of metal found their way inside the movement.

The rubber O ring  on the stem might tell us how bad things might be inside the movement. Watch movements don't welcome metal pieces touring around inside their belly. 

Welcome to the WRT forum.

 

 

 

 

 

[Zakalwe]

The issue with the winding crown occurred before the service, so there are no metal filings inside the watch. They also tried that excuse and I explained this to them, so they shrug and say 'can't help you'. It's a really simple situation - all I need is the part and any of the dealers and shops I've spoken to could easily send me one, but won't, so I'm being held hostage.

Can anyone suggest to me how I might be able to find the part number? They won't even tell me that.

[rjenkinsgb]

From a quick bit of research, that watch appears to have an Oris 649 movement which is based on the ETA 2836-2

https://watchbase.com/oris/caliber/oris-649

Stems for the ETA branded version are readily available from about £3 upwards,

If you want to compare the movement in your to that, the ETA service info is here:

https://www.cousinsuk.com/pdf/categories/29_eta2801.2-eta2836.2.pdf

and a service walkthrough by VWatchie here:

 

For the crown & tube, it's probably secondhand markets. There are some Oris crowns and a couple of tube on Chrono24, if by chance anything matches?

https://www.chrono24.co.uk/search/index.htm?accessoryTypes=&dosearch=true&query=Oris+Big+Crown&searchexplain=1&showpage=3&watchTypes=Z

 

Edited Tuesday at 06:01 AM by rjenkinsgb

[clockboy]

Is it the crown thread that’s faulty or the case tube. I came across this issue last year with a vintage Longines. On close inspection the tube thread was very dirty but the main issue was the crowns thread was damaged. Fortunately I found one on eBay. If it is not the tube then a replacement crown will be the answer but might not necessarily have the correct makers mark. 

Edited Tuesday at 07:32 AM by clockboy

[VWatchie]

12 hours ago, Zakalwe said:

I know I can replace the crown/tube if I obtain the part.

Unfortunately, it is not only watch owners who are denied the right to buy spare parts but also professional independent watchmakers. It is shameful beyond all limits. Of course, everyone should have the right to buy spare parts without any reservations whatsoever. It should work in the same way as it does for cars, but unfortunately, the legal system does not bother to prosecute this practice.

12 hours ago, Zakalwe said:

I'm familiar with all of the nonsense arguments claiming it has to be serviced every time the case is open, blah, blah, which are simply designed to fool laypeople into being scammed. It's a disgraceful practice, but seems widespread.

Fraud exists but there is another side that is not obvious from the owner's perspective. The symptoms of a problem may be obvious but the cause is quite different. If the symptoms are eliminated, the cause may still exist and the watch will not work properly anyway. This is why repairers are not happy just to fix the obvious fault but need to go through the whole watch to guarantee its functionality. Many repairers have made it a rule never to fix just one symptom to avoid disappointment and claims.

I recently convinced a Rolex owner that the movement needs to be serviced and repaired even though the watch is running just fine. It seemed that only the rotor needed an overhaul but on closer inspection, it turned out that the problems were much more extensive. If you want to know more, click on these links:

https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/29655-rolex-cal-3135-issues/#comment-251377

https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/29655-rolex-cal-3135-issues/page/2/#comment-253598

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

9 hours ago, Zakalwe said:

able

 

13 hours ago, Zakalwe said:

I've been stuck with an issue for a while now and am helping someone can help me get unstuck.

I have an 2010 Oris Meistertaucher, reference 01 649 7541 7164-Set and the winding crown thread has been crossed. The only quotes I've been given for fixing it are at least half the value of the watch or more. In addition to this, even though the watch has just been serviced ($400), authorized dealers who can get hold of the part refuse to replace the crown (which is a very simple operation if you have a crown) without charging me for another service (another $400), which is an obvious scam. I'm familiar with all of the nonsense arguments claiming it has to be serviced every time the case is open, blah, blah, which are simply designed to fool laypeople into being scammed. It's a disgraceful practice, but seems widespread.

I know I can replace the crown/tube if I obtain the part. Done it in other watches; simple.

I am being held to ransom by those able to get hold of the part, but won't sell it to me.

Can anyone help?

Thanks.

If you're just needing a crown and stem and are happy to fit it yourself as you've done others, then you only need to identify the movement,  remove the stem , check its dimensions to verify you have the correct one, order a new stem and crown, simples.

Here you go , ive done your homework for you

[Zakalwe]

I should mention, I posted this question on another watchmaker forum and got an incredibly different, pretty aggressive, unfriendly and unhelpful set of responses, which couldn't be more different from the hugely helpful replies above. Thanks so much to all of you for understanding.

I should also mention, the thread was damaged before the service, so the only work required is to fit a new tube/crown. The watch keeps better time than ever (all previous services being at Oris ADs, accompanied by a LOT of problems due to poor workmanship. There is absolutely no reason to service the watch again.

[Neverenoughwatches]

4 minutes ago, Zakalwe said:

I should mention, I posted this question on another watchmaker forum and got an incredibly different, pretty aggressive, unfriendly and unhelpful set of responses, which couldn't be more different from the hugely helpful replies above. Thanks so much to all of you for understanding.

Thats because most other forums are a bunch of crap and ours is totally awesome . Tell me which forum it was so I can sort em out for yer . I've haven't been banned from one before , so it will be loads of fun for me

[Zakalwe]

Avoiding Scams | WatchUSeek Watch Forums

[nevenbekriev]

Hi there,

May be You received aggressive answers because You initially asked aggressive question, claiming that Oris service is scamming You. Well, they don't. They just earn their money and they don't care if You are not happy about that. What they do is not fair, but it is legal and You can't do anything to prove it is not.

The main problem is You will not get the crown and the tube because nobody but the ones who scamming You have it. They have arranged things this way to earn more money because they can, and actually making big money is not always fair thing ...

You options is to rework the watch to conventional, not screw down crown type or to cut new, bigger thread on the crown and make new tube that fits this new thread. Or search for some similar OEM crown and tube... The other option is to buy Q&Q watch for $20 and be happy, one can replace such watch every time He decides. Actually I have chosen this way.

[Neverenoughwatches]

54 minutes ago, nevenbekriev said:

Hi there,

May be You received aggressive answers because You initially asked aggressive question, claiming that Oris service is scamming You. Well, they don't. They just earn their money and they don't care if You are not happy about that. What they do is not fair, but it is legal and You can't do anything to prove it is not.

The main problem is You will not get the crown and the tube because nobody but the ones who scamming You have it. They have arranged things this way to earn more money because they can, and actually making big money is not always fair thing ...

You options is to rework the watch to conventional, not screw down crown type or to cut new, bigger thread on the crown and make new tube that fits this new thread. Or search for some similar OEM crown and tube... The other option is to buy Q&Q watch for $20 and be happy, one can replace such watch every time He decides. Actually I have chosen this way.

Harsh but very true Nev. Your directness rivals mine buddy

[Zakalwe]

I think most of this boils down to what constitutes a 'scam' vs the old excuse for appalling ethics; 'it's just business'. According to the OED, a scam is a dishonest business practice. In my opinion, trying to create a situation in which someone has no option other than to pay for expensive work that is knowingly unnecessary is a knowingly dishonest business practice.

I can't help but feel, having now interacted with a fair few 'watch people', that this kind of behaviour has been somewhat normalized and the irritation seems to come from having it pointed out by a dumb customer/layperson like me.

There are no mental gymnastics capable of convincing me that a service and a small part that's relatively cheap and very easy to install should cost almost a thousand dollars. If that's what some people within the watch industry feel is reasonable, we'll have to agree to disagree.

[tomh207]

Jumping in here, you are upset about the way the whole industry works, I get that and I do agree to a point. I would not call it a scam though, if I have a service with parts you can only get from me then you either pay my price or don’t, it is literally as simple as that.

 

as has been pointed out the movement is pretty standard, 3rd party crowns will have a close match as will case tubes. Find the parts, buy the tools and fix it yourself or find an independent watchmaker who quotes you a price that is acceptable to you.

 

this forum is a respectful and supportive place to be if you want to be involved and learn about watchmaking, we even support the drive by folks who post a question, get an answer and are never seen again. 
 

Tom