Broken Omega advice

[Terrinecold]

Of course I talk at work about my new watchmaking hobby. So my manager told me that his son has a watch from his grandfather (the son not the manager) which has great sentimental value but is not working anymore. 
A vintage omega. He told me they hear something rattling when they shake it (not a good sign I would say). I told him I didn’t feel confident enough to even open it and look at the interior. Let alone try to repair it. 
But I could post here for advices. 

 

from the pictures is there a chance to identify the movement and to know if parts would be available. 
 

Also does someone know a reputable watchmaker around Boston who could take a look and how much a diagnostic could cost (of course I assume repair price would depend on what is wrong). 
 

[oldhippy]

Sounds like the oscillating weight has come adrift could have have broken the axcel. If you have a good case opener just have a look, no harm in taking a look at least you will be able to tell him what is wrong. Post a good photo here and we will be able to confirm for you.

[Terrinecold]

Looks like a screw down case.  The case opener I have for that is a bergeon rubber ball.  I think it will either work or not but it won't harm the watch.

[Bonefixer]

The ball might work, if not you need a screw down case opener. The bench mounted ones are the best rather than the hand held ones, and the chinese clone of a Bergeon one I got was about 1/10th the price and works great. 

[JohnR725]

On 6/27/2024 at 7:02 PM, Terrinecold said:

I didn’t feel confident enough to even open it and look at the interior. Let alone try to repair it.

Always listen to the voice in the back of your head which says in this particular case extreme caution. Versus jumping in and breaking something that you really don't want to do.

Then somewhere in the group we've had the discussion of all the friends whatever who find out what your hobby is and suddenly they have a watch that needs to be serviced. Because conveniently the you're the only watchmaker still alive on the planet at least that they know of. Not that they couldn't find a watchmaker Conveniently they don't because They would then have to make a serious commitment of paying money.

1 hour ago, Bonefixer said:

The ball might work, if not you need a screw down case opener. The bench mounted ones are the best rather than the hand held ones, and the chinese clone of a Bergeon one I got was about 1/10th the price and works great. 

On a case like this it was properly tightened the ball definitely will not work but it might it just shouldn't because it should be really nice and tight. If you have the proper hand held ones most of the time that work fine but they can slip and scratch things up.

Then I'd be curious to see a picture of the  Bergeon Case (as there's probably more than one choice in their catalog I'm curious about which one the Chinese have cloned?

 

[AndyGSi]

I think @Bonefixer is referring to one of these case openers as a Bergeon clone. 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07TLCCGLV/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Bonefixer]

53 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

I think @Bonefixer is referring to one of these case openers as a Bergeon clone. 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07TLCCGLV/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

That’s the one. Mine had a different name, but looks identical. 

[Mercurial]

I totally agree with those that have urged caution if you don’t feel comfortably able to tackle this repair. Don’t learn on other people’s watches. 

That said, it sounds as if the noise the watch makes is caused by excessive play in the automatic winding rotor. This is a common issue for this watch. 

There is a pinion, a combined bushing and gear pressed in at the axis of the rotor. 

As this part wears, it allows the rotor to flop around, causing it to rub against the movement and the case back. 

The proper repair is to replace this pinion.

The worn pinion is pressed out. The replacement is pressed in and the hole is then reamed to fit the axle it turns upon. It is lubricated and it’ll be good to go for a long time.

It is not uncommon to encounter watches where instead of a proper repair, this pinion has been punched on the staking set to close the hole, then reamed to fit the axle. There is very little thickness to the bearing surface between the pinion and the axle, this dodgy repair doesn’t tend to last for long and it is bad practice.

This should solve the rattling when the watch is shaken, but the watch will also at minimum require a service, too.

Best Regards,

Mark

[rehajm]

18 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

Because conveniently the you're the only watchmaker still alive on the planet at least that they know of.

So true. Fortunately for the amateurs these people are our friends and some of us enjoy a good deed…the other benefit of the ‘friend watch’ is they usually haven’t been knackered by someone rooting about, unless it was the ‘professional’ at the jewelers…

[watchweasol]

All advice given has been good and best followed. Minimum to expect is a service plus any parts, and a fair sized hole in the pocket. The fact that the rotor has been sloshing around you can expect metal shavings and dust in the movement, the rate of damage depends for how long was it Isee in a deteriorating state.

[Terrinecold]

thanks for all the advices.  I asked my friend (and manager) how he felt about me opening the case and taking a look with no intention to do much more than taking pictures of the movement and see if indeed the noise is coming from the rotor.

I did tell him I will attempt opening the case with a rubber ball which may not work but won't leave marks for sure.

He would then go to a real watchmaker anyway at least to get a quote

[Mercurial]

Even if you open the watch and determine whether or not excessive play of the rotor is responsible for the rattling noise, what then?

There could, as has been pointed out, be damage elsewhere in the movement due to the metal lost from the rotor bearing being free in the watch. 

There could be other wear and tear that is not visible until the movement is disassembled, cleaned and inspected. 

There is a danger of being blamed (rightly or wrongly) for any problems that surface after you opened the watch. In this game, the last person who did anything to the watch is ‘it’ and often unfairly blamed for problems that arise later. 

Unless you are able to repair and service the watch, I see little to gain, and potentially much to lose by opening it. 

It is a beautiful vintage Omega, I hope the owner can find a good watchmaker to repair it. 

At the end of the day, you know your manager and your abilities and are best placed to make this decision, but do consider what potential gains there are if you opening the watch before proceeding.

Also worth considering is that professional repairman may inflate his quote to repair this watch if he’s told a hobbyist has opened and diagnosed it, being wary of the hidden damage that may lurk within as a result. The most difficult watches to repair are those that have been subject to poor quality botch work in the past. 

Best Regards,

Mark

[Terrinecold]

Well before I saw this I opened it. 
First of all I didn’t hear any rattling sound. 

It was very dirty but nothing seems wrong

I used the crown to wind it and nudged the escapement and it started to beat but very feebly. 

I think he needs to find a watchmaker who will service it. 
 

 

[Mercurial]

Are there any circular wear marks on the inside of the case back that would indicate that the rotor has been in contact with it whilst rotating?

You’ll often find these marks on the case back or around the perimeter of the movement if the rotor has excessive play. 

The watch certainly needs cleaning and it is running very sluggishly. This could be due to nothing more than congealed and degraded lubricants, in which case a service should have it running well again. 

The hairspring looks to either have some coils clinging together, or have a fibre stuck on it. Clinging coils could be due to oil on the hairspring or magnetism.

If the watch has been used heavily in the past, the barrel arbour is likely to have excessive sideshake. If so, this will reduce amplitude or stop the watch completely.

These movements have replaceable bushings in the bridge and plate, so it is a straightforward repair to replace them if necessary.

There could be other defects too, but given that the watch runs sluggishly, a decent watchmaker should certainly be able to get it running properly again without difficulty.

Best Regards,

Mark

[oldhippy]

I don't see any missing screws. The oscillating weight looks good when you touch it doesn't wobble so it is firm on the axcel. I good service is what is needed.  

[Terrinecold]

Thanks for the advice. I have the watch back so I can’t recheck the case back but I did give him as an advice that it would at least need a good service. 
He is now looking for a watchmaker who will perform it.