Customer's truth

[Jon]

One of the things I love about my job as a watchmaker is the variation in what I'm servicing or/and repairing. One day will be a modern Omega Seamaster with a coaxial escapement, the next a Baumgartner pin pallet and the next a Goliath pocket watch. So the vast array of quality to the not so quality of movements. In fact that has been several of the watches across my bench this month, as well as the usual bread and butter work of vintage Rolex and Omegas, which personally I like working on, as you can get such great results from a 50 year old watch and even get them to chronometer standards again, which is very satisfying.

This ladies Rolex watch with a 2135 under the hood came to me with a story, as all watches tend to. Now, the story that the client tells you is sometimes a lot different to what the watch movement is telling you. The watch never lies, but clients have a habit of missing bits out and massaging the truth, so to speak.

Here's an example of what the watch is telling you and what the client is.... You decide.

This watch had been sitting in a draw for almost ten years, said the customer and prior to that it had been working fine.

Now, looking at some of the damage from water ingress and rust and the blob of metal that used to be called a rotor and I would say that unless that draw was in the swimming pool, I doubt very much what I'm being told is even marginally close to the truth

 

The Gif shows dissolving a rusted in screw using Bergeon Vissin. The reason the movement is held upright in the Vissin, is because I didn't want to remove everything that was steel like the IncaBloc setting and minute wheel post, etc.

Remember that this watch was in working order to prior to safely putting it in the swimming pool.... I mean the draw in their bedroom.

 

What I usually ask is, 'Are there any children in the house?' because that throws a different light on everything. What one of their little treasures could have done with that watch is anyone's guess and the 'story' the client is giving you is now seeming a little more truthful with throwing in the 'X' child factor, but alas they didn't have children, not even a random niece or nephew we could possibly pin this on.

It was looking more that the version of events or non-events that was being fed to me, didn't add up. The underside of the rotor actually still had moisture on it!

When I showed the photos of the damage and the estimated repair bill, they didn't seem phased by it and a passing 'Oh, I wonder how water could have gotten inside?'

In the end she cleaned up really nicely. I wish I had taken a shot inside the case.

The last shot of the timegrapher shows the timing in all six positions

For some reason, some Rolex movements you will only get 286 amplitude out of them in horizontal positions. For some reason 286 is the magic number. I've seen this many times. with a new spring and getting 286 amplitude, I'm happy. Another watchmaker friend of mine who works for an accredited Rolex watchmaker told me the same. This isn't all Rolex movements.

On a side note, I serviced a beautiful Omega Seamaster a few years ago. The rubber gasket had turned into a sticky paste just like Marmite, which had gotten everywhere

 

The movement had an intricate slipping pawl ratchet wheel to stop the keyless work from turning as the rotor turned this to put power in the mainspring and vice-versa if I can recall.

Great to discover this over engineered piece of kit and see the similarity of this to a reversing wheel!

It was serviced and returned to it's owner and unfortunately because it has 'Seamaster' written on the dial he thought it would be alright to get into the shower with it!

This only had one outcome, which water logged the case and movement within seconds.

The watch wasn't returned to me for two weeks, so I had to get to work quickly, but the damage was already done and set in and I wasn't sure if the old girl wasn't going to pull through this one.

The client didn't try to dress this story up! There was no cosy warm dry bedroom draw to talk about. No niece, nephew or child to hang this one on!

The thing with a movement with power in the mainspring and a jammed gear train is, it's like playing Jenga. You know at some point it's coming crashing down, just like the movement, you know as you remove parts at some point the power is going to hammer through a train you are taking the bridge off, so it's minimising the least expensive replacement part to break, so holding back the train to remove the escape wheel as a priority because this is the most delicate part to break and then if you can the fourth wheel. The third and second wheel might come off lightly. In fact, I was able to remove all the train by holding back the second wheel which wasn't that hard because of the rust was doing a great job at that.

The only parts that was permanently damaged beyond repair was the whiplash regulator on the top of the balance and a few bits and pieces from the auto works, which had fused together.

The timegrapher results were pleasing once it had been cleaned and serviced again.

Even with all that water and the work needed, a perfectly working vintage Omega 503 brought to within Chronometer standards. It's so pleasing to bring that look of joy to a clients face when they tell you they've been to several watch service places and they've said it can't be repaired and you tell them that you will get her working again. Priceless!

Two services and a complete de-rusting in less than three weeks was a costly mistake

Edited July 5, 2024 by Jon

[SwissSeiko]

Very nice! Water ingress is the bane of my existence. I just wish we would get them as soon as the water got in so we could mitigate damage. Here's a speedmaster reduced I did that apparently got water in it 15 years ago and then it just sat. I'm happy to say it's back to running, but was a pain to get that way.

[mikepilk]

Interesting about the amplitude. I serviced a similar movement for a friend (cal 2230) and without a new mainspring, amplitude was about 300°.

I remember reading something about some manufacturer (it was either Omega or Rolex) not wanting amplitude above 290° for some movements.  Don't know why. Maybe some movements more prone to re-banking? I wish I could remember more.
Maybe someone who services Omega/Rolex ( @nickelsilver, @JohnR725 could elaborate (or was I dreaming)?

[thor447]

I just came across this beauty last night.  

[Neverenoughwatches]

33 minutes ago, thor447 said:

I just came across this beauty last night.  

Looks like that wheel arbor is wearing a bear suit onesie 

[JohnR725]

1 hour ago, mikepilk said:

I remember reading something about some manufacturer (it was either Omega or Rolex) not wanting amplitude above 290° for some movements.  Don't know why. Maybe some movements more prone to re-banking? I wish I could remember more.

I'm going to make a speculation on something? If you look at the watch companies they have timing procedures so in the case of Omega a fully wound watch is fully wound up wait 30 up to 90 minutes and that's considered fully wound up. so it interesting problem may occur with a watch on your wrist that you wouldn't notice if you followed your timing procedure of letting it settle. So on your wrist is it conceivable you to get that last little bit before the mainspring slips what if it doesn't slip exactly where it's supposed to what if you go past which you probably do. So if you're actively moving a wrist and you go past the fully wound up position just before it slips could you have enough energy to be too much energy? So maybe they have a safety factor here.

looking at Rolex we get some amusing conflicts because one of the service manuals I know is 310° whereas the other source I'm looking at is 300 for the most part with the 1520, 1530 series 280°.

then Omega has way more watches the Rolex covering multiple pages of documentation fortunately maximum amplitude is specified on the various specifications page so I'll just snipped that out. Of course the amusements with Omega is minimum amplitude at 24 hours unlike Rolex it's 200° Omega I could take as low as 160 on some caliber's.  Or basically scattered across several pages is 160, 170, 180, 190 and 200 just depends upon which caliber it is.

 

[VWatchie]

Waiting for my flight from Manila to Surigao this was very entertaining to read @Jon.

Missing the workbench but this helped me imagine I was at it for a minute. Thanks! 

[Neverenoughwatches]

5 hours ago, VWatchie said:

Waiting for my flight from Manila to Surigao this was very entertaining to read @Jon.

Missing the workbench but this helped me imagine I was at it for a minute. Thanks! 

 

5 hours ago, VWatchie said:

Waiting for my flight from Manila to Surigao this was very entertaining to read @Jon.

Missing the workbench but this helped me imagine I was at it for a minute. Thanks! 

Enjoy your trip H and safe flying.

[VWatchie]

3 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Enjoy your trip H and safe flying.

Thanks, R! We safely arrived at the Almont Beach Resort in Surigao and here's a picture of my son enjoying the view from our balcony. He is wearing a Helson skin diver as the true and stylish gentleman he is—a gift from his very proud dad. It's not the original strap. Instead, he wanted a coarsely brushed bracelet which I polished for him.

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

Thanks, R! We safely arrived at the Almont Beach Resort in Surigao and here's a picture of my son enjoying the view from our balcony. He is wearing a Helson skin diver as the true and stylish gentleman he is—a gift from his very proud dad. It's not the original strap. Instead, he wanted a coarsely brushed bracelet which I polished for him.

Lovely view H , and the lad is a chip off the old block eh

[VWatchie]

20 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

the lad is a chip off the old block eh

Now, that's just way to British for me to even begin to understand 

EDIT:
I think I got it now that my old brain had time to process it. "Like father, like son"? No, I'm afraid not, he's stronger, smarter, and a lot more handsome 

Edited July 8, 2024 by VWatchie