ESA 9154 stopping in DU position

[GeorgeC]

Hello,

I want to ask for some advice on a watch I've overhauled.  Hamilton Electronic 683.  I have cleaned the movement and used a 1.55v 394 battery for testing since it was of proper height.  The balance does run overnight dial-down but not dial-up. It will begin making a very faint banging sound before stopping in the dial-up.  I’ve checked everything I know of on the balance wheel and am unsure if this is an over-banking issue.  I don't see any recognizable areas of this impact that seems to be happening.  I suspect that it could be the 1.55v vs 1.35v original design.
The hairspring is flat and symmetrical, magnets are free of metal particles.  The train spins free and all wheels have proper end shake.

I’m going to try the Accucel battery to see if the reduced voltage takes care of the problem.  

Do you have any further input you could share?

[AndyGSi]

As a note these take a 344/350 Battery 11.6Dia not 394 which is only 9.5Dia. Don't think this is the problem as long as the insulator is in place.

Photos may help.

 

 

 

Edited July 5, 2024 by AndyGSi
Edited Battery

[Nucejoe]

 If its the stronger voltage, how come it doesn' over-bank in DD.

What does the electric contact/ point  on 683 look like, could it be bent.

How long does it run before stopping? 

Rgds

Edited July 5, 2024 by Nucejoe

[JohnR725]

15 hours ago, GeorgeC said:

The hairspring is flat and symmetrical, magnets are free of metal particles.  The train spins free and all wheels have proper end shake.

classically you might suspect the pivot or jewels if this was a mechanical watch. Then there is the other problem

 

15 hours ago, GeorgeC said:

It will begin making a very faint banging sound before stopping in the dial-up.

so to only makes the sound just before it stops or does it make the sound all of the time? Maybe it's rubbing on something?

[AndyGSi]

49 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

classically you might suspect the pivot or jewels if this was a mechanical watch. Then there is the other problem

This is a mechanical quartz with hairspring so could have a problem with the pivots or jewels.

[GeorgeC]

I discovered a small but noticeable sprig of metallic accumulation on the underside of the pallet fork at the heel of the fork slot.  I demagnetized the whole watch (without the balance) before Tempo 400 cleaning cycle.   I removed this and recleaned the pallet fork and all seems to be fine as it has run and kept time overnight in the dial-up on my bench.  The wear test will be next.

Perhaps this was enough of an issue to disrupt the works.

Yes, I do have a Renata 344 arriving any day.  The 394 was all I had to test with and I was sure to keep it centered in the battery well.

Thank you for the replies

3 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

classically you might suspect the pivot or jewels if this was a mechanical watch. Then there is the other problem

 

so to only makes the sound just before it stops or does it make the sound all of the time? Maybe it's rubbing on something?

Yes, the sound was just before the balance would stop.

Edited July 6, 2024 by GeorgeC
added content

[JohnR725]

6 hours ago, AndyGSi said:

mechanical quartz

this is a quartz watch it's a electromechanical watch.

5 hours ago, GeorgeC said:

I demagnetized the whole watch (without the balance)

one of things I have the check was the tech sheet because on a lot of electric watches there are other magnets and found on the balance wheel. A lot of watches the magnets are used either hold the fork in place or the equivalent of the escape wheel but looks like on this watch is not an issue

Edited July 6, 2024 by JohnR725

[AndyGSi]

19 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

this is a quartz watch it's a electromechanical watch.

OK, electromechanical not Quartz Mechanical but it still has a spring balance, pivots and jewels.

[nevenbekriev]

It is clear that is electomechanical, but is it quartz? From the pictures I saw, seems it's not.

[JohnR725]

2 hours ago, AndyGSi said:

Quartz Mechanical but it still has a spring balance, pivots and jewels.

1 hour ago, nevenbekriev said:

but is it quartz?

it's not quartz it's a transistor electric watch I have a link. Yes it has a balance wheel the transistor replaces the mechanical contacts that you would normally find on the early electric watches.

https://electric-watches.co.uk/movement-types/transistorised/

then we get the strange category of companies upgrading their electric watches to quartz like these.

https://electric-watches.co.uk/movement-types/quartz-control-with-balance/

or Bulova was feeling left out even though that a very nice successful tuning fork they had to go and add a quartz circuitry making quite a pain in the ass to work on.

https://electric-watches.co.uk/movement-types/quartz-control-with-tuning-fork/

 

[AndyGSi]

I understand that by calling it quartz mechanical I was wrong.

The point I was making was that it still has a spring balance, pivots and jewels as a mechanical watch, any of which could have been the cause of the OPs problems.

[JohnR725]

1 hour ago, AndyGSi said:

The point I was making was that it still has a spring balance, pivots and jewels as a mechanical watch, any of which could have been the cause of the OPs problems.

yes exactly. Normally if as a mechanical watch would be looking at the amplitude dial-up and dial down to see if we did see a problem. On electric watch the only way he could do that would be if we were measuring the current consumption words is her additional friction or something. But typically people working on electric watches don't have proper test equipment.

Is also a test for dampening of the balance wheel in other words you rotate it release it and it's supposed oscillate a certain amount of time and that should've been done I both dial down and dial up looking for a problem. It may be that the sound were hearing at the very end when it stops may actually be occurring at all the time but when it's moving really freely fast maybe it's not really being heard it's only when it finally slows down.

So a classic would be look at the pivots and the jewels see how they look.

[nevenbekriev]

There is at least one electromechanical quartz movement. It is Russian and the calibre is Luch 3055. It is normal electromechanical, but it is quartz controlled.

[JohnR725]

9 hours ago, nevenbekriev said:

There is at least one electromechanical quartz movement. It is Russian and the calibre is Luch 3055. It is normal electromechanical, but it is quartz controlled.

There are three of them and it was covered in the link I previously gave up above and I'm giving again. Then the Russians and their electric watches you see some very innovative interesting things. Unlike the rest the world trying to get around patents typically they are trying to get around the problems of their technology and still make a product. Which means they make all kinds of very very interesting products like a variety of interesting electric watches.

https://electric-watches.co.uk/movement-types/quartz-control-with-balance/

 

[AndyGSi]

5 quarts mechanical from the link provided including citizen detailed below.

https://sweep-hand.org/2020/06/23/todays-watch-citizens-first-quartz-8811/

[MarkAP]

I'm experiencing the same issue with three 9154s I'm working on. They run strongly DD but stop almost immediately DU. I removed the cap jewel on two of them and there is an unexpected amount of clearance around the pivot in the main jewel but as the pivot seems to rest on distinct divot in the cap jewel, is that really an issue?