Sending a watch from France to UK

[BlueHarp]

Hello,
I have spent two weeks in England and the friend who accomodated me showed me an old Timex watch that didn't work. I couldn't repair it, as I had not my tools and this is a basic Timex, not really made to be serviced. So I brought it to France and I succeeded in repairing that watch, which works now quite correctly.
As this watch, although very cheap, has a sentimental value for my friend, I offered to send it back to him. The problem is that I have to fill a specific form for the customs (CN 22), but I do not know which box I must tick ("gift" or "other") and what value I must indicate (I repaired the watch free of charge).
Could anyone give me some information about what to do?

[AndyGSi]

Do you not have a returned goods option on your CN22s?

[agg221]

The watch was not permanently exported. That means you are not filling in the value as a sale (on which import duty would be charged), but as a value on the servicing, which was zero.

I don't know the French system, but this link covers it quite well from the UK as to which codes to use, and I believe they are internationally standard:

https://community.hmrc.gov.uk/customerforums/ie/20ad4772-0157-ee11-a81c-6045bd0b439a

It explicitly covers free of charge repairs.

Alec

[BlueHarp]

Thank you.

I'm not a professional, so I mentionned "gift" and indicated a small value.

 

[Klassiker]

I've had exactly the same problem a few times (shipping personal property back to the owner in UK, in my case from Germany, and also when shipping presents from UK to Germany). You are instructed to use form CN22 but there is no way to categorise the contents as "personal property - returning to owner" or similar. The customs codes are explicitly for commercial goods. You need to declare a value for insurance purposes, but if the value is over a certain limit (I think around 50 EUR incl. the postage costs) the recipient is hit with hefty extra costs on delivery, even if you tick the "gift" box.

The last time, I declared a value way below the true value, ticked the "other" box, and hoped for the best.

[praezis]

Hello,

insurance value and declared customs value do not have be the same. At least from Germany you declare insurance with e.g. DHL and customs value in the customs form. If latter is somehow realistic customs at destination will not make trouble. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

15 hours ago, BlueHarp said:

Thank you.

I'm not a professional, so I mentionned "gift" and indicated a small value.

 

Is it not just classed as a return of property ?  The gift would be the actual repair of it which could be any value you make it, you wound it up it and it worked. A covering note could explain it.

[Klassiker]

9 hours ago, praezis said:

Hello,

insurance value and declared customs value do not have be the same. At least from Germany you declare insurance with e.g. DHL and customs value in the customs form. If latter is somehow realistic customs at destination will not make trouble. 

Hi Frank,

I'm sure you are right. Customs would just go on the value declared on the CN22. My concern was what DHL would say in the event of an insurance claim. For example, the 5kg Paket for 26.99 EUR has insurance up to 500 EUR, which was closer to the true value of the goods I sent, but as I declared 20 EUR on the CN22, I doubt DHL would have paid out 500 EUR in case of loss. If you have a different experience, I'd be interested to hear it. How do DHL decide how much to reimburse? In the end I sent a 2kg Päckchen without insurance.

[AndyGSi]

If you need to claim on the insurance then they require proof of the value and that's what's paid.

[praezis]

You will have to prove the real value anyhow before they will pay anything.  A customs declaration surely is not such proof. Don‘t be tempted to claim higher value than those 500: you will get nothing then.

BTW From Germany to abroad they will insure watches higher than 500, but not inside Germany.

I had only one loss about 30 years ago: parcel with a watch case disappeared. They paid full (2k).

Frank

[Klassiker]

@AndyGSi @praezis So, putting that into my own words; your method to avoid VAT, import duty etc. when returning property to the owner on a non-commercial basis by post would be to declare zero value on the CN22, and tick gift or other. If the risk of loss or damage needs insurance, use a courier-service product (e.g. DHL) including insurance up to an amount exceeding the value of the item(s). DHL and the like are only interested in (a) the insurance they sold you, which needs to exceed the value of the items, and (b) the value of the items, as shown for example on purchase documents. The value declared on the CN22 is completely irrelevant for insurance purposes, should a claim be necessary.

Does that sum things up accurately?

[AndyGSi]

No sure about the VAT, import duty etc. but the value declared on the CN22, as you say, is irrelevant.

Here in the UK it's the same with insurance via our Royal Mail. You can only claim with proof of value.

If you're returning an item that hasn't actually been sold, and therefore has no proof of value, would mean any insurance would be useless.

[BlueHarp]

18 hours ago, Klassiker said:

@AndyGSi @praezis ... would be to declare zero value on the CN22, and tick gift or other.

The thing is you can't enter zero in the value box. So I ticked the "Gift" box and I indicated 20 € in the "Value" box. The parcel is on its way to the UK and I will inform you how things are going. As for the insurance, this is not an important matter because the parcel contains a very ordinary old Timex, the kind that was made to be thrown away instead of being serviced ... but I managed to repair it and my friend will recover the timepiece he had when he started working ... a long time ago !

[Klassiker]

1 hour ago, BlueHarp said:

you can't enter zero in the value box

Good to know, thanks. I'm sure the watch will arrive safely.

20 hours ago, AndyGSi said:

You can only claim with proof of value

It would be interesting to know how an insurance claim actually plays out in real life. Probably they don't pay out the original purchase price for a used item, so the original receipt is of limited use. DHL's conditions state that they cover the cost of replacement, at the documented value of the shipment at the time of handover or collection. Does anyone know from experience how is this value actually derived, and what proof is actually required?

20 hours ago, AndyGSi said:

If you're returning an item that hasn't actually been sold, and therefore has no proof of value, would mean any insurance would be useless.

That can't be right, surely? If so, what is the point of DHL's insurance for private customers? I don't see anything in their conditions limiting the cover to commercial shipments only. So documented value must mean something other than a value on an invoice or receipt.

[AndyGSi]

16 minutes ago, Klassiker said:

So documented value must mean something other than a value on an invoice or receipt.

The key word is documented so it needs to be in writing.

When I've made claims for items sold through eBay I've had to provide a link to the item showing the sold price.

If I'm sending anything with a value that I don't have proof of then I send it Special Delivery and when asked by the
counter staff I say it's a gift but also say it contains a nominal value of cash which could be claimed if then lost.

Fortunately I've never had a problem with Special Delivery.

[BlueHarp]

On 7/8/2024 at 5:54 PM, BlueHarp said:

... I ticked the "Gift" box and I indicated 20 € in the "Value" box ... I will inform you how things are going ...

The watch has been delivered without any incident