thank you for having me! looking for some guidance on a vintage rolex viceroy

[jlmcpski]

Hello Watch Repair Talk:

I am new to this site. Thanks for having me. I have an interest in vintage watches and I am looking for some guidance on a vintage rolex movement. 

I purchased a vintage Rolex Vicerory Oyster, manual wind watch. The specs are as follows as best as I can tell:

case ref: 2280

serial 216xxx (this leads me to believe it is from 1941-1943 (closer to 1941)

29mm (not including the crown)

17 jewel, super-balanced

10 1/2 ligne

movement calibre is either 700 or 710. 

It was working fine for a few months and unfortunately, i hit my hand/arm  and the watch immediately stopped. 

I took it to a local watchmaker and he said that the plate (frame?) is broken and therefore in order to get it working i would need to replace the entire movement and not just the plate. 

I really love the watch and would love to keep it authentic by finding a replacement movement. However, I don't know how to go about finding a replacement movement. I have looked on Ebay but cannot find one that matches or that even works. Would some one have any guidance on how to find a replacement movement for the vintage Rolex Viceroy Oyster manual wind? 

anything is greatly appreciated

thank you. 

jlmcpski

 

[Nucejoe]

 The plate ( frame ) needs a heavy sledge hammer to break, if its really broken!   many gears , arbours are unlikely to have survived.

An image of your movement might help. 

 

Welcome to the WRT forum.

 

 

 

 

[RichardHarris123]

Hello and welcome.  As @Nucejoe said, unlikely a plate has broken and we do need photos. 

[oldhippy]

Thank you for your introduction and welcome to this friendly forum.

We all look forward to your contributions and continued involvement. 

If there is anything we can help you with don’t be afraid to ask. Nice clear photos can help a lot.

I agree to me it is more likely the balance staff. 

[jlmcpski]

Thank you Moderators and Advanced Member for your prompt reply and insight. 

Sadly, i did not get a picture of the movement after the impact when the case was open. 

I am attaching a picture of the movement before the impact. 

If I can, i will try to have someone open it for me and will post a pic of the damaged movement. 

thanks again.

jlmcpski

[Nucejoe]

 Its a calib 710, Rolex adjusted to several positions, so if a balance pivot is knocked off,  repairing it to the original precision wouldn't be cheap,  but can be repaired, specially that back in the days many  makers made similar looking movements, FHF for one , not sure but ,  I think some parts might interchange with FHF made ones, theres always a chance of finding a donor movement.

 For overall assessment , show full extent of damage once you get your watch back. 

Best wishes

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 17, 2024 by Nucejoe
spelling

[jlmcpski]

Hello Forum:

Sorry for the delay. I tried to reply to Nucejoe this past weekend, but I dont think it went through. Anyway, I did get the case back of the Rolex Viceroy  Oyster manual wind open, but I did not get pics of the damage to the main spring underneath the barrell. The local watchmaker said there was damage to the main plate, cover bridge and main spring. (attached is pic of the case back open) but sadly does not show the damage. 

I did some research and there is available on Ebay a ref. 2280 Rolex 710 movement but it is not in working order and the price is more than what i paid for the watch!

i appreciate the info from Nucejoe regarding calibre 710. and the possibility of replacing with another movement (non rolex), perhaps FHF. I am wondering if you could further assist with what I should try to look for  as a replacement movement? and I am wondering if I have the measurements accurate.

Ranfft DB describes the movement as follows (see attached):

17 jewel 

calib. 710

10 1/2  lignes (10 1/2 hunter?)

dimensions: 23.4mm

sweep seconds - the rolex catalog (see attached) shows that this is 710, Cal. 10 1/2, sweep second (formerly 10 1/2  Hunter?) with a measurement of 23.4mm. it also says that "the regular parts in this calibre ref. 700 and for special parts for calibre 710 sweep second. does this mean I can look for calib 700 movement too? 

anyway, thanks again for any input. I would love to be able to find a new movement for this watch. 

thank you, 

jlmcspki

 

 

 

[RichardHarris123]

There's a screw jamming the balance wheel.  

[AndyGSi]

37 minutes ago, jlmcpski said:

I would love to be able to find a new movement for this watch.

The idea of @Nucejoe was probably not clear enough but the idea is to find another
cheaper movement as a donor that you can take the parts from to repair yours.

Where in the world are you and is it an actual watch maker/repairer you've taken
this too as the screw highlighted by @RichardHarris123 is from the barrel?

[jlmcpski]

Thanks for the replies.

I am in Massachusetts USA. 

OK, so I understand now that i would need to find a movement from which parts can be used to repair rolex movement that i have, correct?

The guy is a watch repairer. not a watch maker. sorry for the confusion. 

jlmcpski

[RichardHarris123]

3 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

it an actual watch maker/repairer you've taken
this to

Anyone can call themselves a watch maker/ repairer, doesn't mean it's true.  

1 minute ago, jlmcpski said:

Thanks for the replies.

I am in Massachusetts USA. 

OK, so I understand now that i would need to find a movement from which parts can be used to repair rolex movement that i have, correct?

The guy is a watch repairer. not a watch maker. sorry for the confusion. 

jlmcpski

Carefully remove the highlighted screw and replace in the barrel, you might be lucky and it's the only fault. 

[AndyGSi]

25 minutes ago, jlmcpski said:

The guy is a watch repairer. not a watch maker. sorry for the confusion.

I very much doubt he's even a watch repairer to leave the barrel screw out when he's returned it to you.

As @RichardHarris123 said, the first thing would be to replace the screw in the barrel and try and wind it.

If this doesn't work then the only part of the report I'd believe would be that it needed a new mainspring.

There are varying details shown across the web as to what size the mainspring
should be but measurements could be taken from the old one even if broken.

Edit

Looking at the photos closer and the comment about damage to the main
bridge could mean what looks like a jewel missing from the train bridge.

Edited July 22, 2024 by AndyGSi

[jlmcpski]

o.k. thanks

so i need to find a watch maker who can replace the screw in the barrel 

and then try to figure out the exact measurement of the mainspring and try to find a replacement mainspring. 

thanks

jlmcpski

[rossjackson01]

jlmcpski. I'm a novice of 2 1/2 years learning.

Can I offer my twopenneth worth? If you have the back off, then place the lose screw in the barrel, turn it to the right, clockwise to tighten. Do it very gently until you feel pressure then stop. If the watch works, then great. If it doesn't, then don't under any circumstance do anything else.  

It's a lovely watch. Why not learn what needs to be done on basic level. Put in a container that you can look at now and again. Spend the next month looking at YouTube videos of people repairing Rolex and other watches.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkTm1NSj64U

You will see at 16:40 minutes how to do the barrel screw. 

 

A Rolex. My dreams a made of that.

 

 

Edited July 22, 2024 by rossjackson01
spelling

[jlmcpski]

Thank you Rossjackson01. I appreciate your help. I will give it a go. 

thanks again to everyone for your input. 

jlmcpki

[Nucejoe]

 Sharp eyes @AndyGSi , sure looks like a jewel enjoying free merry go round ride on the balance rim,    Lucky no broken piece appear in barrel arbour.

Too soon to start looking for a donor movement, as escape arbour might have remained undamaged, should test the oscillator. 

@jlmcpski,  I would install the screw back on the barrel, remove the loose jewel, then shake the watch, time how long the balance oscillate.

Proper jewel refit is not a basic task as it might appear, as we don't want it to jump out of place by first sneeze of neighbours.

Rgds

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

[Knebo]

It looks to me as if the cap jewel for the balance is also missing within the setting. 

I found one photo a complete movement as it should be:

 

 

Also note that there seem to be different versions of the Rolex cal 710. Some with shock protection systems for the balance. This one is without. And for the escape wheel jewel setting, some 710's have a screwed-in settings with two screws on top of the train bridge (whereas this one seems to have a single screw from the bottom of the bridge). 

So one has to be extremely careful when looking for a replacement/donor movement. 

But these jewels must be replaced. Otherwise the watch will not run properly.

Sourcing these parts at reasonable cost won't be easy. If you get the right parts, the repair itself shouldn't be too hard. Swapping out the whole movement is a lazy approach. That being said, it may be necessary to obtain a whole movement to get all the necessary parts (buying them individually may be hard). 

 

I would strongly suggest that you find an experienced watchmaker for this project (who's good at sourcing parts). Maybe others can suggest one in your region.