Hairspring manipulation: Removing a vertical twist.

[Simeon]

I have a hairspring with a vertical twist in the terminal curve. The spring has been distorted at the terminal curve and the outer ring that goes through the regulator is now above the rest of the spring.

What's the correct technique for removing this twist?

I also need to replace the terminal curve back where it goes into the concentric part of the spring, so I guess I need to tweak it at that location. Any rules of thumb as to how far the outer curve should be offset or do I need to measure the balance cock jewel to regulator pins and replicate this on the hairspring?

 

Excuse the bad photos. 

[caseback]

Maybe this is helpful? 

 

[HectorLooi]

Does the hairspring look "out of flat" with the balance installed?

What movement is this? Could you post some photos of the balance cock back in the movement? 

There are some Russian movements where the end of the hairspring is "cranked" and may appear crooked. But when viewed with the balance installed, the hairspring is actually flat.

Edited July 21, 2024 by HectorLooi
Typo

[Nucejoe]

 Importante. 

You should clean and demag the hairspring first, so you can see actual shape of the coil, and be sure of its inner circles correctness.  Because the spiral  must be parallel " widthwise "  along its entire length, and flat & level.  you need to spot where its beginning to go out of parallel, and sort it out back to parallel.

The vid caseback provided didn't open on my device, I trust it shows how its done.

Good luck

 

 

 

[Simeon]

7 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

Does the hairspring look "out of flat" with the balance installed?

What movement is this? Could you post some photos of the balance cock back in the movement? 

There are some Russian movements where the end of the hairspring is "cranked" and may appear crooked. But when viewed with the balance installed, the hairspring is actually flat.

Yes, when installed on the cock it pulls the whole hairspring out of flat. When removed, the majority of the hairspring is flat with just the outer ring veering off from flat.

It's a Raketa 2609HA which has a (normally) flat hairspring I believe (at least all the others I have worked on have them).

I will reinstall it on the cock and main plate to clean and demagnetise. I will try and get some pictures then. 

6 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

 Importante. 

You should clean and demag the hairspring first, so you can see actual shape of the coil, and be sure of its inner circles correctness.  Because the spiral  must be parallel " widthwise "  along its entire length, and flat & level.  you need to spot where its beginning to go out of parallel, and sort it out back to parallel.

The vid caseback provided didn't open on my device, I trust it shows how its done.

Good luck

 

 

 

Thank you, I will do this. Any tips for how to demagnetise while it is uninstalled? Or will I need to reinstall it on the cock and the put it back on the baseplate? Probably will reinstall it in order to get some pictures. 

I removed it from the movement before stripping and cleaning the rest of the movement as I wanted to see whether I could fix the hairspring first. I probably should have gone ahead and cleaned it as I can always get a new balance complete. 

9 hours ago, caseback said:

Maybe this is helpful? 

 

Great video. Thanks.

Here is a picture of a new balance complete (taken from an eBay ad). This shows the outer coil how it is stepped out from the rest of the coils. The terminal curve steps in roughly in the centre of the quadrant opposite where the stud is. 

Here is another eBay picture showing the hairspring as flat. 

[HectorLooi]

I think we have to wait for @nevenbekriev to weigh in on this. 

I've seen Russian movements with flat hairsprings, cranked hairsprings and even Breguet hairsprings. Maybe someone replaced the hairspring in your watch with the wrong type.

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 hours ago, Simeon said:

Yes, when installed on the cock it pulls the whole hairspring out of flat. When removed, the majority of the hairspring is flat with just the outer ring veering off from flat.

It's a Raketa 2609HA which has a (normally) flat hairspring I believe (at least all the others I have worked on have them).

I will reinstall it on the cock and main plate to clean and demagnetise. I will try and get some pictures then. 

Thank you, I will do this. Any tips for how to demagnetise while it is uninstalled? Or will I need to reinstall it on the cock and the put it back on the baseplate? Probably will reinstall it in order to get some pictures. 

I removed it from the movement before stripping and cleaning the rest of the movement as I wanted to see whether I could fix the hairspring first. I probably should have gone ahead and cleaned it as I can always get a new balance complete. 

Great video. Thanks.

Here is a picture of a new balance complete (taken from an eBay ad). This shows the outer coil how it is stepped out from the rest of the coils. The terminal curve steps in roughly in the centre of the quadrant opposite where the stud is. 

Here is another eBay picture showing the hairspring as flat. 

To evaluate your situation better a picture looking straight down at the hairspring is needed

[Nucejoe]

 Nothing wrong with spring demag when separated from balance ,  demag when installed too, and every part, the whole watch and your tools. 

Rgds

[caseback]

5 hours ago, Simeon said:

Any tips for how to demagnetise while it is uninstalled? Or will I need to reinstall it on the cock and the put it back on the baseplate? Probably will reinstall it in order to get some pictures. 

I have a small jar of Hexane for degreasing hairsprings. While demagnetizing one, I leave it in the jar. The idea is, the fluid prevents it moving to violent..

[nevenbekriev]

Guys, demagnetising this spring is like empting empty bottle. First of all, it is very hard, almost impossible to be magnetised. If it is sticky, then it must be cleaned. Usually hexane or generally pure petrol helps. If one can't obtain such materials, then He can distill some A95 petrol from the petrol station. But, sometimes petrol is not able to clean some sticky stuff and then pure acetone must be used. And, the heavy artilery - boiling in stuffs like NaOH. The last thing for sure will destroy the shellac if it is used to fix the imp. jewel, but in 2609HA there is no shellac there.

Now, if the hairspring is not sticky, then it is bent and needs to be rectified. I mean not the terminal curve, as it is a piece of cake. It is twisted - then find the place which is twisted, grasp it between two tweezers and twist in in the oposite direction in order to untwist. What i mean is the concentricity of the last 2-3 coils, as they are touching each other. The terminal curve for 2609HA is correct on the shown picture from internet, but there is little problem there - the curve must be on the same distance from the main body of the spring from it's beginning to the end.

Edited July 21, 2024 by nevenbekriev

[Nucejoe]

 Hairspring  is

4 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

I've seen Russian movements with flat hairsprings,

  Russian movements are put together using whatever part they happen to have in their inventory.  

Don't believe me  ???        ask neven he knows. 

 

[rehajm]

In Soviet Russia hairspring twists you!

[Neverenoughwatches]

4 minutes ago, rehajm said:

In Soviet Russia hairspring twists you!

Here in the Uk, actually i think its more of a yorkshire saying. A big girl, and i mean a really big unit of a girl we say " jeez wouldn’t want to mess with her she's built like a Russian shot putter " hairsprings are maybe built the same way.