Omega cal 684 running extremely fast

[VWatchie]

I only take the practical approach to magnetism. If a watch has been properly serviced and repaired but still displays an unexpectedly low amplitude and high rate, demagnetizing can dramatically improve the performance. Exactly why that is I leave to my MagnOmatic. As a matter of fact I don’t even bother to check for magnetism.

[nevenbekriev]

On 7/23/2024 at 1:12 PM, VWatchie said:

I agree with Alex (which is not always the case) in the following video:

 

OK, I tryed to watch the video and did't see Him to magnetise the hairspring. Hi instead magnetised the whole movement, which is totally different.

[VWatchie]

16 hours ago, nevenbekriev said:

OK, I tryed to watch the video and did't see Him to magnetise the hairspring. Hi instead magnetised the whole movement, which is totally different.

From a practical standpoint I don’t think there’s much to be gained from analysing what parts get magnetised, unless you’re a watchmaker (manufacturer). Just demagnetise and be done with it. It only takes a few seconds.

[nevenbekriev]

3 hours ago, VWatchie said:

From a practical standpoint I don’t think there’s much to be gained from analysing what parts get magnetised, unless you’re a watchmaker (manufacturer). Just demagnetise and be done with it. It only takes a few seconds.

Correct, good practice is to demagnetise the movements before regulation.

What I dissagree is different:

On 7/23/2024 at 1:12 PM, VWatchie said:

I agree that it would be hard to magnetise a balance spring to the point that the coils start to stick to one another. However, magnetised balance springs are not uncommon. Typical symptoms are an increased rate and decreased amplitude (not sticky coils). A good demagnetiser is a must and it should be used whether any magnetism has been detected or not. At the very least the movement should be demagnetised before any regulation of the rate takes place.

My current demagnetiser is a Greiner MagnOmatic which is a very serious tool that in my experience works perfectly. They show up on the flea markets now and then.

I agree with Alex (which is not always the case) in the following video:

 

There is a sentence "However, magnetised balance springs are not uncommon. Typical symptoms are an increased rate and decreased amplitude (not sticky coils)." there.

The problem is that "magnetised movement" is often mistaken for "magnetised hairspring". That's what this thread is all about. It whent wrong from the point htat the OP's hairspring was claimed as "magnetised". Then everybody statred to explain about demagnetising and what demagnetisers they have and use. Well, the OP hairspring is not magnetised. And, the magnetised contemporary movements perform badly not because of hairspring magnetisation. They perform badly due magnetisation of the other parts of the movement, not the hairspring itself. And if one wants to prove that the magnetising of hairspring is the problem, He must take the hairspring off the balance, to magnetise it, to put it back and test the (not magnetised otherwise) movement with it. Not to magnetise the whole movement and claim the hairspring. There is also a stupid idea in the video about the "magnetic friction" in the hairspring. Well, the electromechanical watches with those big magnets on the balances that move so fast when balances rotate, how can they work at all?

[Neverenoughwatches]

On 7/24/2024 at 7:19 AM, VWatchie said:

I only take the practical approach to magnetism. If a watch has been properly serviced and repaired but still displays an unexpectedly low amplitude and high rate, demagnetizing can dramatically improve the performance. Exactly why that is I leave to my MagnOmatic. As a matter of fact I don’t even bother to check for magnetism.

For the time it takes to demag, it should just become a routine procedure to the point of magnetism being a needless consideration. I think we have enough things to think about that go wrong.

41 minutes ago, nevenbekriev said:

Correct, good practice is to demagnetise the movements before regulation.

What I dissagree is different:

There is a sentence "However, magnetised balance springs are not uncommon. Typical symptoms are an increased rate and decreased amplitude (not sticky coils)." there.

The problem is that "magnetised movement" is often mistaken for "magnetised hairspring". That's what this thread is all about. It whent wrong from the point htat the OP's hairspring was claimed as "magnetised". Then everybody statred to explain about demagnetising and what demagnetisers they have and use. Well, the OP hairspring is not magnetised. And, the magnetised contemporary movements perform badly not because of hairspring magnetisation. They perform badly due magnetisation of the other parts of the movement, not the hairspring itself. And if one wants to prove that the magnetising of hairspring is the problem, He must take the hairspring off the balance, to magnetise it, to put it back and test the (not magnetised otherwise) movement with it. Not to magnetise the whole movement and claim the hairspring. There is also a stupid idea in the video about the "magnetic friction" in the hairspring. Well, the electromechanical watches with those big magnets on the balances that move so fast when balances rotate, how can they work at all?

Its good to learn what magnetism can and cannot effect. Lets see what Jendritzki had to say on the subject.

[RichardHarris123]

Ultimately, what magnetism is affecting is a moot point, it is detrimental to the correct running of the movement, so demagnetification should be part of the service routine.  

Many on here though, including myself, like to understand the problem and not just accept it. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Ultimately, what magnetism is affecting is a moot point, it is detrimental to the correct running of the movement, so demagnetification should be part of the service routine.  

Many on here though, including myself, like to understand the problem and not just accept it. 

So Jendritzki doesn’t have a great deal more to say about it than has already been covered, magnetism can have permanent or temporary affects on how a watch runs depending on the materials used in the movement. Soft iron being non or virtually non magnetic as is nickel, nickel plated components can take on very small amounts of magnetism that have little affect.  After conducting tests on watches with non magnetic hairsprings , balance wheels and mainsprings . Attempted applications of magnetism to these parts before installing them with fairly high levels of exposure resulted in relatively insignificant changes of rates. Big moving components such as a mainspring if composed of steel when magnetised will have varying affects on non magnetic hairsprings .

[VWatchie]

6 hours ago, nevenbekriev said:

There is a sentence "However, magnetised balance springs are not uncommon. Typical symptoms are an increased rate and decreased amplitude (not sticky coils)." there.

The problem is that "magnetised movement" is often mistaken for "magnetised hairspring".

My only point is that as watch repairers we don’t have to worry about what parts are magnetised.

Simply replace “balance springs” for “movements” in my sentence and I think we’re home. No one has suggested that only the balance spring should to be demagnetised, right!?

As watch repairers we don’t need to understand the exact science, but we need to be able to recognise the symptoms of a magnetised movement, i.e., low amplitude and high rate.

From the scientific viewpoint of it I’m sure Alex is just guessing (I wouldn’t know) but from a practical viewpoint he is spot on. That is, always demagnetise the movement before regulating it.

5 hours ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Many on here though, including myself, like to understand the problem and not just accept it.

The beauty of it in this particular case is that we don’t need to understand the problem (the only exception in watch repair that I can come to think of) We only need to be able to recognise the symptoms as the remedy is always the same. Demagnetise!

I can understand the fascination for the science of it, but then it’s about something else than watch repair.

Edited July 25, 2024 by VWatchie