Winding stem won't stay put!

[jtmarran]

Hi All,

I'm repairing/servicing and Elgin Automatic with an A Schild 1382/83 movement. It appears that the bore for the winding stem has been worn to the point where there is excessive play so that the setting lever won't lock in the stem when screwed down. See Attached pics. I'm thinking of attempting to bush it with microtubing, but am also seeking advice re. other repair methods. See pics.

Thanks!

Joe

[Kalanag]

Please show us where the setting lever sits in the groove of the winding stem. Your problem might not be a worn bore but a worn stem or lever.

[jtmarran]

Hi Kalanag,

Thanks for the reply. Here are a couple of shots where the setting lever sits. One is with the stem installed. There is just enough play in the system to allow the stem to slide out when the lever is screwed down. correction to above typo... A Schild 1882/83.

Joe

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

11 hours ago, jtmarran said:

Hi All,

I'm repairing/servicing and Elgin Automatic with an A Schild 1382/83 movement. It appears that the bore for the winding stem has been worn to the point where there is excessive play so that the setting lever won't lock in the stem when screwed down. See Attached pics. I'm thinking of attempting to bush it with microtubing, but am also seeking advice re. other repair methods. See pics.

Thanks!

Joe

Ah so you have a wobbly stem Joe, never mind, it happens to us all eventually

6 minutes ago, jtmarran said:

Hi Kalanag,

Thanks for the reply. Here are a couple of shots where the setting lever sits. One is with the stem installed. There is just enough play in the system to allow the stem to slide out when the lever is screwed down. correction to above typo... A Schild 1882/83.

Joe

 

Does the stem feel particularly wobbly when its in the bore. Careful how you answer this. 

[RichardHarris123]

Is it an optical illusion or is there a gap under the set lever? 

[AndyGSi]

How does it feel when the rest of the works are installed?

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 minute ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Is it an optical illusion or is there a gap under the set lever? 

At last a serious answer lol, I'm trying my best to be useful, maybe propping up a bar is more my thing today shame i dont drink. Annyyway, there should a slight gap, a slight gap i say under the set lever to give some free movement.  The set lev screw will be shouldered to allow this. 

As Andy has commented, more keyless parts in position to stabilise the stem. At the moment it's just relying on the plate bore and plate hole for the stem pivot, these are often slack especially on old watches. I would look at the stem lever groove and the set lever pin that locates it first.

[AndyGSi]

I think you'll find the clutch and pinion will take up a lot of what you think is slack.

[Neverenoughwatches]

4 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

I think you'll find the clutch and pinion will take up a lot of what you think is slack.

I meant those lol

Pretty sure they compose some of the keyless components lol

[watchweasol]

Hi. I have seen the hole worn to the point 2here the nib ion the lever just misses the groove. If that’s you problem then bushing is the way to do it.

[jtmarran]

I reassembled the keyless works. That did take up a lot of the play and I can get the nib to engage if pushing the stem "up" while putting into the setting position, but there's still enough play to allow the stem to pull out. Most of the play seems to be in the part of the bore that is made up of the train bridge.

 

[AndyGSi]

Not sure if it's just the photo but the stem shoulder look very worn on one side?

Have you got a photo of the complete keyless works compared to this from Ranfft?

[jtmarran]

1 hour ago, AndyGSi said:

Not sure if it's just the photo but the stem shoulder look very worn on one side?

Have you got a photo of the complete keyless works compared to this from Ranfft?

@AndyGSi A couple more shots...

 

[AndyGSi]

I'd consider a new stem before thinking about any bushing.

[Neverenoughwatches]

2 hours ago, jtmarran said:

@AndyGSi A couple more shots...

 

The shoulder to the left of the groove does look worn, there's a dimension for this if you can measure it.

[jtmarran]

2 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

The shoulder to the left of the groove does look worn, there's a dimension for this if you can measure it.

Unfortunately I won't be back to the bench until Friday. I'll try to measure the shoulder then... going to be tricky where it's at. In the meantime a new stem has been ordered and on its way.

[Neverenoughwatches]

33 minutes ago, jtmarran said:

Unfortunately I won't be back to the bench until Friday. I'll try to measure the shoulder then... going to be tricky where it's at. In the meantime a new stem has been ordered and on its way.

If a new staff is arriving you can rule out that possible cause. 

[AndyGSi]

These should be the dimensions.

[JohnR725]

20 hours ago, AndyGSi said:

I'd consider a new stem before thinking about any bushing.

With some watches you can actually find oversize stems that are physically larger than the original because they grasp that there would be a problem like this.

[jtmarran]

What I wound up doing...

Reshaping the portion of the train bridge to close the gap between it and the stem by lightly tapping. Works well. Will see how long it lasts.

[Neverenoughwatches]

11 hours ago, jtmarran said:

What I wound up doing...

Reshaping the portion of the train bridge to close the gap between it and the stem by lightly tapping. Works well. Will see how long it lasts.

I noticed the inadvertent pun lol. Maybe not the best approach deforming plates or bridges. That deformation could carry through to another critical area but it sounds like it has worked for you, did the new stem not have any improvement ?

[jtmarran]

@Neverenoughwatches

Yes, I am concerned a bit that this area might be or eventually become fatigued which would lead to a more drastic repair approach.

No, no improvement or difference with the new stem.